314.28(A)(2) does it apply when you are building a service...

[NinjaLover85]

I cannot seem to find anywhere if 314.28(A)(2) Distance Between Raceways Containing the Same Conductor applies when building a service...this picture will explain my question better....
<a href="https://imgur.com/3t6tU0o">

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You seem to be concerned about the length of a nipple. That is not what 314.28 is about.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is another graphic

 

[NinjaLover85]

You seem to be concerned about the length of a nipple. That is not what 314.28 is about.

No sir I am not worried about the size of the nipples, I am asking about the Distance between Raceways containing the same conductors, Panel "A" feeds Panel "B", "C", & "D" through a trough. Does 314.28(A)(2) apply here for the distance from the 3" nipple and the 2" nipple that is feeding panel "B"?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay so did my diagram help. As far as I know that section applies to everything so yeah I believe the service raceways would fall under this section

 

[augie47]

I would agree...it would apply.

 

[NinjaLover85]

Okay so did my diagram help. As far as I know that section applies to everything so yeah I believe the service raceways would fall under this section

I think my question was misunderstood from the start, my apologies because it was most likely my fault completely. Panel "A" feeds the other 3 panels. I already knew about the diagrams you posted, basically I was curious if 314.28 applied to the service raceways for panel sub-feeds.
If it does apply in this scenario then the minimum requirement between the close-nipples would have to be 18", then in that case the best route would be to feed panel "B" by just nippling straight from panel "A". The 2" close-nipples for the other 2 panels would be far enough away that they would be ok.
Is this correct?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes I believe you got it...

To be honest I am not sure many people pay attention to that code section but IMO, it does apply to services.

 

[NinjaLover85]

Thank you so much for helping me with this!!! It just never dawned on my that 314.28 would apply to services as well, but now looking at so many that have been built there are a lot that are similar to the scenario I drew here and do not comply with it. Is this something that just typically gets overlooked because people do not know about it or just do not care really?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

My guess is inspections people may not know the bending rules. Heck, many electricians don't either.... I don't know why it would be an issue if you looped the wire in the box before it went into the pipe.... I guess that entire bending of the wire at terminals also gets overlooked.

I saw a piece of NM cable bent in half and it passed inspection. I am guessing that many inspectors don't know the rule or that they don't think it is that important

Maybe Gus (augie 47) will weigh in since he is an inspector

 

[infinity]

What are the bending rules?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is my opinion that the wireway is not being used as a pull box and if it is not being used as a pull box, the rules in 314.28 do not apply. 376.23(B) Yes, being used as pull box is a subjective call, and others may not see it the same way. The rule in 314.28 is intended to prevent damage where conductors are being pulled in. Such damage is unlikely in this application and I would not require compliance with 314.28.

 

[oldsparky52]

I would agree...it would apply.

Would you turn him down or turn a blind eye?

 

[Carultch]

It is my opinion that the wireway is not being used as a pull box and if it is not being used as a pull box, the rules in 314.28 do not apply. 376.23(B) Yes, being used as pull box is a subjective call, and others may not see it the same way. The rule in 314.28 is intended to prevent damage where conductors are being pulled in. Such damage is unlikely in this application and I would not require compliance with 314.28.

What would "qualify" it as a "pull box" in your opinion? Is it a matter of whether it takes a serious pulling effort, to install the wires? I could understand 314.28 not being a serious concern, where none of the raceways go any further than a nipple, because it is just local wiring among equipment in the same group.

 

[Carultch]

What are the bending rules?

Bending space at terminals for instance:

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bline/Resources/Library/catalogs/meter_mounting_equipment/ring-type_metering/ed-minimumwirebendingspace.pdf

And the bending radius of the wire. The general rule I've used is an interior bending radius no smaller than 6 times its own diameter.

 

[romex jockey]

Yes I believe you got it...

To be honest I am not sure many people pay attention to that code section but IMO, it does apply to services.

How 'bout service equipment?

I'm sure i'm not the only one wrestled 350's into>>>

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[Dennis Alwon]

Why would you install 350 kcm's in a 200 amp meter base?

 

[infinity]

Bending space at terminals for instance:
And the bending radius of the wire. The general rule I've used is an interior bending radius no smaller than 6 times its own diameter.

Where is the 6X rule in the NEC? If I remember correctly there are requirements for bending space at terminals but not for the individual conductors.

 

[electrofelon]

You seem to be concerned about the length of a nipple. That is not what 314.28 is about.

I never understood why that requirement is there. I could have a giant pull box with an entry and an exit raceway very close, but have plenty of room to do a large 180, 270, or 360 degree loop in the box, but there is no allowance for that.

 

[electrofelon]

Why would you install 350 kcm's in a 200 amp meter base?

Fairly common for a resi service with a longish run of 400-600 feet (depending on loads of course) to run 350. Also most meter sockets are actually rates 225 amps, so that would be the AL wire size if one wanted the full 225A.