Twisting the wires with linesman pliers before using a wire nut?

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Had one wire nut that specifically say not to pre twist, I dont recall the brand, usually do pretwist. However on this one when I pretwisted, (didn't check package until after), wire nut gave a tussle trying to screw the nut onto the wire and when tried to remove the spring core would come out, (never had this with other nuts) without pre-twisting no problem and core stayed intact. Not sure of how the mfg is different but does seem to different somehow.
 
There will be strong opinions on both sides of this one.
don_resqcapt19 said:
If you install them correctly there is no reason to pretwist the wires before installing the wire nut.

I found it was easier to get the electricians to pretwist than to install the wire nut correctly, so if you were working for me and wanted to continue to work for me, you would pretwist the solid wire.:)
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Yeah, not pre twisting is theoretically fine, however it seems many/most people don't twist enough if using the wire nuts. I just tried not pre twisting with 3 #12 solids, and I didn't have nearly enough strength (without using a tool) to get anywhere close to enough twists to make a pre twisted quality connection.

Although not specifically required per most instructions I have seen, IMO the connection should not fall apart if the wire nut is removed.
 
electrofelon said:
There will be strong opinions on both sides of this one.


Yeah, not pre twisting is theoretically fine, however it seems many/most people don't twist enough if using the wire nuts. I just tried not pre twisting with 3 #12 solids, and I didn't have nearly enough strength (without using a tool) to get anywhere close to enough twists to make a pre twisted quality connection.
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👍 3 #12 is a bit much for the wire nut, imo
 
480sparky said:
Same here. Wire nuts are just insulators.
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Without getting into the original religious question, the latter statement is not true. Wire nuts provide the gasless connection that twisting alone will not.

Mostly, I twist when I have more than a couple as it keeps everything aligned while I get the nut in place.
 
I used to strip long, very carefully twist so all the conductors were twisted perfectly, and cut to length with knipex cable cutters leaving a perfect unflattened top. Then I got lazy and started using wagos.
 
Another angle/opinion: pretwisting is skill that takes lots of practice (for larger numbers of wires). I find it very satisfying to take a big bundle of 7,8,9 wires and get a perfect twist. To me it is another thing that shows skill. So part of me can't help but think when someone doesn't pretwist, is it because they just think it is not necessary or because they CANT.
 
rnatalie said:
Without getting into the original religious question, the latter statement is not true. Wire nuts provide the gasless connection that twisting alone will not.

Mostly, I twist when I have more than a couple as it keeps everything aligned while I get the nut in place.
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Let me explain my answer: I twist the wires sufficiently that they will maintain both electrical and mechanical connections without any wire nut, tape, or other cover. So, yes, my answer IS true.... it's just an insulator.
 
electrofelon said:
Another angle/opinion: pretwisting is skill that takes lots of practice (for larger numbers of wires). I find it very satisfying to take a big bundle of 7,8,9 wires and get a perfect twist. To me it is another thing that shows skill. So part of me can't help but think when someone doesn't pretwist, is it because they just think it is not necessary or because they CANT.
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I didn't think that there were any wirenuts listed for more than 6 conductors?
 
480sparky said:
Let me explain my answer: I twist the wires sufficiently that they will maintain both electrical and mechanical connections without any wire nut, tape, or other cover. So, yes, my answer IS true.... it's just an insulator.
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But, I still disagree. TWISTING alone is NOT sufficient. If it were, it would be allowed to just twist the ground wires together to make the connections (since they didn't need insulation).
 
I'm gonna catch guff for this, but IMO, the people that just hand twist and spin on a wire nut, or don't pre-twist at all, aren't electricians.
They are likely owners that are micromanaging their bottom line.

It's a definite skill to be able to work a sidecutter efficiently and get a SOLID splice.
There's zero skill involved in just a quick hand twist and a wire nut.
 
Have not twisted for over 40 years. At least not since red/tan and larger wire nuts have had wings vs. straight barrels.

For reliability, in own house use ideal crimps with the neoprene boots. AND solder the completed crimp before the boot. Other non-aerospace jobs just get wire nuts with no pre-twist. Fingers calibrated at about 65 inch ounces. 1f601[1].png

Also FWIW, old Mil-std-217 gives soldered crimps a lower reliability than just the crimp, but that is for mil spec crimps and the soldering failure rate is due to poor soldering post flux clean inadequacies.
Aircraft connections are all soldered or crimps with certified ratchet release crimpers., etc...
Rocketdyne used fast-on connections for some power supplies on space station but every one was then covered with dielectric sealant.

Of course, a contractor would never win any bids doing any of that on residential or commercial job, eh?
 
What??? You don't use an ultrasonic wire welder?

Well I am a DIY hack, and just use the wago levernuts.

When I would use wirenuts I would not pretwist, but would use the wire nut to twist the wires. If I could take the wire nut off and the splice stayed together, it was good.

Jon
 
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