electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Ok good to know I didn't make that up. I hate when I find out that something I was so sure was true, my brain fabricated
Twisting the wires with linesman pliers before using a wire nut?
- Thread starter zappy
- Start date
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
I haven't checked in here for a looong time. I see nothing has changed. 
DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
I haven't checked in here for a looong time. I see nothing has changed.
I remember always enjoying your posts, you should hang around more
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I resemble that remark!I haven't checked in here for a looong time. I see nothing has changed.
Jerramundi
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicago
- Occupation
- Licensed Residential Electrician
Agreed, but it's definitely SOP in the industry, lol.
I'm not being as harsh about it as you likely think I am being. I'm a fairly laid back individual.
I still stand by the comment because of the lack of trade specific skill involved in splicing wires without the aforementioned applied knowledge.
I would have "become an electrician" much sooner if I didn't have to first master this ability.
Every sparky I've ever worked for or with have always mocked the idea of "no pre-twist" as just being shotty work that's more concerned about micromanaging milliseconds than it is quality.
oldsparky52
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC USA
How are you? Good to see you.I haven't checked in here for a looong time. I see nothing has changed.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
My dad was a plumber, pipefitter, and welder. He worked on boilers a lot, but he also did Residential Plumbing from the late 50s to the late 70s
He expressed similar sentiments about the guys who insisted on using junk copper water lines instead of threading together galvanized pipe
And he expressed similar sentiments about guys who started using ABS drain lines instead of pouring oakum joints
Maybe you also feel that people who use plastic or fiberglass wall boxes are faketricians, too
Really, though, I ain't mad at you. I see some guys all the time doing stuff that I think disqualifies them
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I like plastic boxes, but not fiberglass ones; they shatter too easily. I wonder what I would qualify as?Maybe you also feel that people who use plastic or fiberglass wall boxes are faketricians, too
DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
A stooge?I like plastic boxes, but not fiberglass ones; they shatter too easily. I wonder what I would qualify as?
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I love the fiberglass boxes because they hold their shape when the nails are driven tight, and because the clamps are easy to work with. The wires come out toward the front instead of going down to the back of the box.I like plastic boxes, but not fiberglass ones; they shatter too easily. I wonder what I would qualify as?
Plus, the fiberglass ones only shatter if you hit the box with a hammer. I had a guy helping me, and he kept breaking boxes. He hated those "cheap" boxes
I told him "you're not supposed to hit the box, you're only supposed to hit the nail."
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Oh, a wise guy! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Oh, another wise guy! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!I told him "you're not supposed to hit the box, you're only supposed to hit the nail."
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Im with ya. Another thing I love about the fiberglass and HATE about plastic is the tapped device holes in the fiberglass. Maybe there are some plastics that are tapped but the junk carlon boxes are not.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I think the premium Carlon are tapped.
The LeGrand gray boxes have the metal tab in them.
But yeah, the fiberglass tapped holes are the best.
3M's B/G+ wire nuts are rated for up to six #10 conductors, solid and/or stranded.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/37675O/3m-b-g-performance-wire-connector.pdf
Jerramundi
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicago
- Occupation
- Licensed Residential Electrician
Exactly. It's very common to use the rhetoric I'm using here, especially when you learn or become accustomed to one particular method.My dad was a plumber, pipefitter, and welder. He worked on boilers a lot, but he also did Residential Plumbing from the late 50s to the late 70s
He expressed similar sentiments about the guys who insisted on using junk copper water lines instead of threading together galvanized pipe
And he expressed similar sentiments about guys who started using ABS drain lines instead of pouring oakum joints
Maybe you also feel that people who use plastic or fiberglass wall boxes are faketricians, too
Really, though, I ain't mad at you. I see some guys all the time doing stuff that I think disqualifies them
I actually agree with @Little Bill that it's "not right," which is why I clarified that I'm not being as harsh about it as he may think I'm being.. although I completely understand why one would/could take it that way.
It's a strange, tricky balancing act between (1) newer, more efficiently technology and (2) what skills qualifies one to be an "electrician."
If we continually come out with tech that eliminates the need for base skills (such as splicing with a lineman's pliers), anyone can be an electrician. That's my issue with the whole idea of not pre-twisting. Just spinning a cap on eliminates as a very basic, but very necessary skill.
The manufacturer's don't care about this, which is why we need to be careful. They just wanna sell product.
I worked at 2 large companies that had a lot if vibration in some areas where you had to twist the.pressure connectors ( no such thing as wire nuts in NEC ) then apply tape over it. Wish I had a dollar for every time I went behind a lazy sparky who only throw a pressure connector on 4 or 5 #12 wires and they came loose and sparked after remiving connector. Best pratice is to Always strip all # 14 to 10 guage wires 7/8" , pre twist with linesmen pliers so that you get 3 full turns, trim off ends even then apply tape. Tip be a friend & leave a turned over flap at end of tape.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
That's not how I read it.
They are good for up to six 2.5mm metric conductors. Only three #10AWG. It's not easy to decipher. 3M could have done a better job with their instructions.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I had a "skilled trades" temp service send out a skilled residential electrician once, and I wanted him to wire a detached garage while I worked in the house.
First thing, I asked him is he an electrician, he said yes. So I asked him if he can handle that garage by himself. He said, "sure. I can bore holes and pull line."
Immediately I called him out on that. I told him there's no way he's an electrician, because there isn't any electrician alive who would call it "boring holes and pulling line"
That told me everything I needed to know about him
He fessed up. His so-called experience was that he had added a few outlets and knows how to hang some light fixtures.
He was in his car going home 2 minutes later
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I remember my first training on wire nuts 30 years ago, 3M was talking about their 'live action spring' which meant there was no need to pretwist.
Some electricians have been complaining about how 'unprofessional' it is it ever since.
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