GFCI Question

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Since when did appraisers cite code compliance (electrical, mechanical, or otherwise) issues period? They are supposed to give an estimated value that the home would typically sell for in it's location.
 
Angrysquirrel said:
Even better! He’s not a home INSPECTOR! He’s an appraiser!
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I missed that... I would still call him and demand he either call the inspector, come on this site and retract his bull. He is incorrect and he needs to know that. Call the bank he is doing the appraisal for.. don't let him get away with this crap.
 
It’s a rock and a hard place. The lender has to follow VA guidelines. There is no appeal process. The VA told me all I can do is request a waiver. I asked if I can get another inspection and they said no, once an appraisals in, it is gospel for 6 months and that is the only one we can work off of. Believe me, if this costs me one cent more because of him for any reason, we will be meeting in small claims court. And no matter what I will be filing a complaint with the VA and state licensing office.
 
Angrysquirrel said:
It’s a rock and a hard place. The lender has to follow VA guidelines. There is no appeal process. The VA told me all I can do is request a waiver. I asked if I can get another inspection and they said no, once an appraisals in, it is gospel for 6 months and that is the only one we can work off of. Believe me, if this costs me one cent more because of him for any reason, we will be meeting in small claims court. And no matter what I will be filing a complaint with the VA and state licensing office.
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And ask since when electrical inspection of this sort is part of the appraisal process? Knowing some this stuff maybe factors into appraisal amount, but it isn't appraisers job to determine if the place meets the building codes. Unless he is also functioning as a home inspector. In that case he should have a separate home inspection report. But a home inspection is simply a report card on condition of things and not the same thing as an AHJ inspection after building or renovations. Sort of like buying a used car, you obviously are not going to be purchasing a 1975 model and expecting it to have or be refitted with all the 2020 safety standards items or emissions controls.
 
Angrysquirrel said:
Background; new build in Michigan with all inspections passed and COO issued by county. Michigan seems to currently be on NEC 2017 code

..just spoke to the county inspector that signed the house off. It’s confirmed, this appraiser is a quack!
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While your county inspectors are the Authority having jurisdiction (AHJ), your superb investigation efforts may reveal error exists on all sides.

New work requires both AFCI & GFCI in kitchen & laundry:
for AFCI: 2017 NEC 210.12(A)
for GFCI: 2017 NEC 210.8(6)&(10)

AFCI or Dual Function circuit breakers can be used in fuse box, or dual function outlets can be used instead. Leviton uses AF/GF on the outlet face to identify dual function outlets.

We can help you identify AFCI & GFCI circuit breakers, if you post a photo.
 
Angrysquirrel said:
I queried the builder who informed me all plugs are in fact equipped with GFIC protection but not ever plug is a GFIC plug.
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These are not required to be GFCI type receptacles but they are required to have stickers on them that states that they are GFCI protected. May want to check to see if they are there.

Some inspectors don't like the idea of having to go to the panel (especially in basement ) to reset after testing.

You should be able to look up the VA inspection criteria for your area.
 
growler said:
These are not required to be GFCI type receptacles but they are required to have stickers on them that states that they are GFCI protected. May want to check to see if they are there.
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That is only true for feed thru non grounding circuits and it must state no equipment ground.
 
In 2017, Michigan State wide amendments excluded adoption of NFPA-70 210.12 (AFCI Requirements for single-family homes).

If that's still the case today, then please disregard my previous AFCI comments.
 
I believe the code calls for 2 SABC in kitchen serviced from the countertop. If within 6 ft on edge of sink must be GFCI. I usually will leapfrog the circuits receptacles so that no 2 adjacent receptacle is the on same circuit. If reasonably able to run continuous loop will use 1 GFCI receptacle on each circuit and feed each additional receptacle from the protected load terminal, or use an AFCI/GCFI breaker, whatever is for convenience of customer. I've had many inspections with this setup and no complaints.
How is it an appraiser dictating code failure?
 
Michigan electrical work as we speak is being completed under the 2015 Michigan Residential Code for 1 and 2 family dwellings.

If it's residential, those are the guidelines.

It's Statewide and has been that way for several years. I wire 25/30 new homes a year in Michigan and have never been cited from the NEC.
 
Angrysquirrel said:
Hello;

I’m attempting to gather some information to appear an issue I’m having with a home appraiser whom currently is making me unable to obtain a VA mortgage refinance.

Background; new build in Michigan with all inspections passed and COO issued by county. Michigan seems to currently be on NEC 2017 code.

Issue; the appraiser claims my home is not up to code with 2020 NEC standards due to all receptacle in hazardous areas (kitchen, bathrooms and laundry) not having GFICs independently wired at each reciprocal location. I quieried the builder who informed me all plugs are in fact equipped with GFIC protection but not ever plug is a GFIC plug. That is to say, all plugs in hazardous areas are connected to a GFIC. Here is what the builder wrote;

“Install GFI's in kitchen independently of each other above the kitchen counter. 2020 NEC(National Electric Code Book Page 218 Section A - 6.”

I’m giving myself a crash course in electrical safety and standards. My question is this; does the 2020 code indeed require GFICs in the kitchen be independent of each other?
I have a feeling this appraiser is overreaching and abusing his position. It’s a bad spot to be in because the appraiser for a VA loan is almost the end all be all unless you want to go through a lengthy government review.
Any info is appreciated!!
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Some thoughts. There are some out there that run an individual circuit to pretty much every kitchen counter receptacle, but that is a design decision and not a code requirement. This so called appraiser maybe thinking that is required? If it were then you basically will end up with a GFCI for every receptacle location.

Also VA or any other financing organization can have whatever rules they want, but I would think in most cases whatever is acceptable to the local city, county, state AHJ is going to be acceptable.
 
The VA has some rules of their own, and this may be one of them. The VA is difficult to work with on this and they do not use home inspectors, they have the appraisers do the home inspections.
 
From what I see from the OP, this is not about a 'home' inspection but rather a valuation by an appraiser.
It sounds like the VA appraiser wants to value the property below the amount the OP wants financing for. In which case there is not much that can be accomplished by simply citing the NEC.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The VA has some rules of their own, and this may be one of them. The VA is difficult to work with on this and they do not use home inspectors, they have the appraisers do the home inspections.
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Yes but the appraiser did not say this was VA rules. He said it was NEC rules.
 
jim dungar said:
From what I see from the OP, this is not about a 'home' inspection but rather a valuation by an appraiser.
It sounds like the VA appraiser wants to value the property below the amount the OP wants financing for. In which case there is not much that can be accomplished by simply citing the NEC.
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I appreciate everyone’s input. Jim, this is not the case exactly. While the valuation did come in less than ideal, we don’t dispute this. Unfortunately, on top of the valuation the appraiser put stipulations for the appraisal to be valid, those being installation of GFI devices and mitered corners on my front porch posts.
As it stands, I’m requesting a waiver from the VA on these specific items. I’ll let you know how it goes.
 
The builder said they don’t do mitered corners on exterior wood due to wood swelling, warping and cracking. The APPRAISER said that’s a lie and mitered edges make it less susceptible to this. As you can see the APPRAISER has several alter egos; not only is he an appraiser, he’s an inspector, and electrician, a carpenter and a designer. Smartest man he knows!
 
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