chandelier over a bath tub ?

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Stevenfyeager

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United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
The architect (75 yr old one) drew a chandelier over the claw feet bath tub. The ceiling is around 9 to 10 feet high. This light has 4 arms with a total of 5 bulbs, the picture shows a pretty big fixture. I was thinking no hanging light allowed within 8 feet of the highest water level,....? Thanks !
 
Take look at 410.10(D) you need 8' above the rim of the tub to the bottom of the fixture.
 
Suggest some sort of fiber optic artsy fartsy thing. All electrical is located in the ceiling, the 'chandelier' is a non electrical 'shade'.

(Not sure if such actually exists in a way that suits the bathroom environment, nor if the non electrical part would still be considered part of the fixture, but it would seem possible that something suitable could be built. )

Jon
 
Stevenfyeager said:
The architect (75 yr old one) drew a chandelier over the claw feet bath tub. The ceiling is around 9 to 10 feet high.
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This is just my opinion but I don't think a chandelier with a low ceiling would look very good anyway.

I have installed a couple of chandeliers in bathrooms and they did look OK but they had high ceilings.
 
Architect is the key word here. Why do they continue to specify things like this ? They know it's wrong !!! Now it's left up to the electrician to cite the infraction and then the arguments start. What if it hangs down JUST A FEW INCHES BELOW the 8' mark. Will the EI pass it ? What if the HO picks a different chandelier ?

Just install it in the center of the bathroom, out of the footprint of the tub. IMHO.
 
goldstar said:
Architect is the key word here. Why do they continue to specify things like this ? They know it's wrong !!! Now it's left up to the electrician to cite the infraction and then the arguments start. What if it hangs down JUST A FEW INCHES BELOW the 8' mark. Will the EI pass it ? What if the HO picks a different chandelier ?

Just install it in the center of the bathroom, out of the footprint of the tub. IMHO.
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I'm not so sure that they know any better. Watch home shows on TV and you'll see this is a common design practice. Even if it's in the center of the room it still needs to be 3' from the edge of the tub.
 
Everyone is reading these magazine where they show the chandelier over the tub and they want that look. I have disappointed many clients on that issue. Some times it is shown from a vaulted ceiling and other times from a 9' or so ceiling. Vaulted ceiling may work but not on a 9 or even 10' ceiling
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Everyone is reading these magazine where they show the chandelier over the tub and they want that look. I have disappointed many clients on that issue. Some times it is shown from a vaulted ceiling and other times from a 9' or so ceiling. Vaulted ceiling may work but not on a 9 or even 10' ceiling
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Yes, seems like many designers know little to nothing about code. We just completed a high end Manhattan condo project where the didn't want to see a receptacle above the bathroom vanity so they put them inside of the cabinet instead.
 
Install a regular bath room light. Tell architect he / she can install the chandelier at their own risk, after you're done. The obvious reason is that if a bulb is out. The writers of the code picture some one standing on the edge of the tub dripping wet changing a bulb.

I have customers that want that all the time.
It would be a good idea to wire it with gfci protection.
 
Buck Parrish said:
Install a regular bath room light. Tell architect he / she can install the chandelier at their own risk, after you're done. The obvious reason is that if a bulb is out. The writers of the code picture some one standing on the edge of the tub dripping wet changing a bulb.

I have customers that want that all the time.
It would be a good idea to wire it with gfci protection.
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I would not recommend that especially with those words. You could be held liable if they do it and get hurt. I just tell them we cannot do it.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Everyone is reading these magazine where they show the chandelier over the tub and they want that look. I have disappointed many clients on that issue. Some times it is shown from a vaulted ceiling and other times from a 9' or so ceiling. Vaulted ceiling may work but not on a 9 or even 10' ceiling
Click to expand...
I was wiring a kitchen for a lady at a high end home. I had all the counter outlet boxes up getting ready to wire them.
The lady saw that and said, no way I don't want those. She went and got a magazine of a kitchen, pictured was the counter with no outlets.
I said, where well are you going to plug in you appliances. She said I don't cook :unsure:
 
I battle with home owners and interior designers with non code compliant requests all the time.
When they try to circumvent with, what if ? how about doing this? I respond with {123-1234] The phone number of the electrical inspector.
 
Buck Parrish said:
Install a regular bath room light. Tell architect he / she can install the chandelier at their own risk, after you're done. The obvious reason is that if a bulb is out. The writers of the code picture some one standing on the edge of the tub dripping wet changing a bulb.

I have customers that want that all the time.
It would be a good idea to wire it with gfci protection.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that reason is obvious. I didn't realize that was the reason for this requirement until I read it in the handbook. I always thought it had something to do with water and the tub being a wet location.

What about a new LED fixture that doesn't have any lamps? It's obviously still prohibited, but IMO it should be allowed, since there aren't any lamps to change.
 
steve66 said:
I'm not sure that reason is obvious. I didn't realize that was the reason for this requirement until I read it in the handbook. I always thought it had something to do with water and the tub being a wet location.

What about a new LED fixture that doesn't have any lamps? It's obviously still prohibited, but IMO it should be allowed, since there aren't any lamps to change.
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I agree, so many people want these. Perhaps the manufacturers will design some thing that can be UL approved for above a tub. Probably a transformer hid under the canopy reducing the voltage, too.
 
steve66 said:
I'm not sure that reason is obvious. I didn't realize that was the reason for this requirement until I read it in the handbook. I always thought it had something to do with water and the tub being a wet location.

What about a new LED fixture that doesn't have any lamps? It's obviously still prohibited, but IMO it should be allowed, since there aren't any lamps to change.
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Would have to go way back to when it was written and see what the proposal and ROP's came up with. I think it is more than just wet locations or being able to stand on rim of tub to change lamps. For one thing you could have pretty low clearance and a recessed luminaire and that is code compliant. Doesn't even need to have GFCI protection either, unless that has recently changed and I was not aware of it.
 
IMO with the evolution of LED's this very old NEC standard needs to be re-written. A chandelier with integral enclosed LED's that never get changed should be fine over the tub. There are other types of fixtures that unless subject to shower spray that are permitted in the tub zone and they're only required to damp location rated.
 
Buck Parrish said:
The obvious reason is that if a bulb is out. The writers of the code picture some one standing on the edge of the tub dripping wet changing a bulb.
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Good point.

This seems to be an argument between "the marketing dept." and "the engineering dept.".

The "company president" will always go with the marketing people but there are many players in this game and some of them have real power.
 
infinity said:
IMO with the evolution of LED's this very old NEC standard needs to be re-written. A chandelier with integral enclosed LED's that never get changed should be fine over the tub. There are other types of fixtures that unless subject to shower spray that are permitted in the tub zone and they're only required to damp location rated.
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But the fact you may have to change the bulb(s) I don't believe is part of why the rules are like they are. You have always been permitted certain other luminaire types that also will require lamp changes in that zone, Like I mentioned before recessed lighting in a low clearance application is and has not been prohibited, yet lamps still needed changed on those, plus GFCI is not even required.
 
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