IBEW advice and how to get in

Status
Not open for further replies.
2

2phases

Member
Location
Auburn Hills
Occupation
Manager
I apologize for the essay, if anyone is willing to give advice I would really appreciate it. I’m trying to get into the IBEW union local 58, Michigan. I had my interview with them in November and was not accepted. Previous to the interview I called every single contractor in their region, over 50, asking for a position in the warehouse or literally anything and they all couldn’t accommodate me at the time. I got my CPR, chauffeurs license, and OSHA certificate. I spoke with the head of NECA in my area before the interview as well asking what I could do to increase my chances. At the time of the interview I actually had an interview with one of the guys I spoke with and he asked if I had done any schooling or experience and I told him I did not. As I have no schooling or experience. Since then I’m joining an electrical school in January and I’m going to re apply in the 90 days. However my question is this. I recently called one of the union contractors and he offered me a position as a stock boy in his warehouse. Also I found another non union contractor that offered me a position as his “apprentice” and he would let me work on anything. I’m debating on which one I should take. The union guys pros are that I can tell the interview board I’m working for one of your contractors but the cons is I that I will only learn about equipment and tools of the trade. The non union guys pros is that I will learn all hands on when it comes to electrical and I’ll get to do that full job but his cons is that he isn’t connected to the union.

Now the interview board told me that I lacked experience and schooling, the schooling I figured out but with experience the only one that will give me that is the non union guy, but I just don’t know how big of a deal and how much weight it holds to tell the interview guys I work for a union contractor, because all I would be doing is working in his warehouse sweeping and organizing the shop. I realize I have to start at the bottom and have no issue with that but I wonder what job would help me the most?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank for your time.

Alex
 
tom baker said:
Union and non union posts can go south quickly. Keep the discussion focused on advice.
Click to expand...
I totally get that. My dads a non union guy and I know everything about the relationship between the two. I’m posting here because I’m 24 and working as a manager at a pizza place and realize I’m going nowhere. I’m not affiliated with either and I’m simply a single entity asking for people’s advice on what they would personally do if they were in my shoes. Just a pros and cons list or someone’s input is all im asking for. If someone could look beyond what a union represents and vice versa and to simply look at a young guy trying to figure out what to do in life it would be beyond greatly appreciated.
What could I do to phrase my question better to avoid that sort of conversation?
 
I would check and see if there are union jobs available in your area. Many union shops were without work but that was awhile ago. Union definitely pays better --

Non union shops that do commercial work pay better than non union shops that do residential.

That is about all I can offer. Some may feel differently about it than I do.
 
Unions have some pretty arcane rules on how many apprentices they can have because of the strange rules about how apprentices are both hired and laid off. It seems to vary from place to place but a lot of locals apprentices enjoy more job security than journeymen do. I think this is because when a company agrees to accept someone as an apprentice they have to all but agree not to lay them off. It is not that simple, but it does limit how many companies will accept someone as an apprentice and how many apprentices they can take.

I think there is also a limit to how many apprentices can be hired in the whole local based on how busy the local is. Someone explained some of the rules to me once, but they were so convoluted that I have long since forgotten them.

I think in the long run you might, and I say might, be better off with a more structured program that the union might offer. From my interactions with both union and non-union electricians over the years, I have come to believe that union apprentices are trained in a more structured way, with somewhat more support, while non-union apprentices get thrown in the deep end to see if they can swim. I am not sure which produces better journeymen, as I have seen good and bad ones come out of both programs.

There is a fair amount of chicanery that goes on in the apprentice selection process. While there is some semblance of looking for the "best" people, some of the dumbest people sometimes manage to get selected, often due to family connections that seem to matter a lot more than anything else. But that might be to my small sample set.
 
Last edited:
From what I've heard from the union guys in my area is that they have gotten burnt too many times with people coming in with no experience, going through part or all of their program and then leaving. To correct that they are looking for people who have been in the trade and seem to be committed to the trade, I've also heard that some of the guys getting into the apprentice program first worked essentially as a laborer in the union first.

In my region I feel that the union is the way to go, however work can get sparse at times.

No matter what you do you're going to need to start at the bottom, work hard and study. You want to be the go to guy that knows what you're doing.
 
Here's a list of the IBEW Locals in Michigan. There are links to their websites with information on joining their apprenticeship program. It may take a while for you to get into the apprenticeship program. I would take a job ASAP with an electrical contractor to start learning the trade. You may even find after a short while that it's not for you. If you do get into the IBEW apprenticeship program remember that you will be drug tested. I've seen some guys get through part of the process of getting in only to be derailed by their recreational activities.

 
infinity said:
Here's a list of the IBEW Locals in Michigan. There are links to their websites with information on joining their apprenticeship program. It may take a while for you to get into the apprenticeship program. I would take a job ASAP with an electrical contractor to start learning the trade. You may even find after a short while that it's not for you. If you do get into the IBEW apprenticeship program remember that you will be drug tested. I've seen some guys get through part of the process of getting in only to be derailed by their recreational activities.

Click to expand...
this is good advice offered by Infinity, almost every person I have seen selected for the union apprenticeship program (in my area) was previously working non-union.
 
infinity said:
Here's a list of the IBEW Locals in Michigan. There are links to their websites with information on joining their apprenticeship program. It may take a while for you to get into the apprenticeship program. I would take a job ASAP with an electrical contractor to start learning the trade. You may even find after a short while that it's not for you. If you do get into the IBEW apprenticeship program remember that you will be drug tested. I've seen some guys get through part of the process of getting in only to be derailed by their recreational activities.

Click to expand...

"I would take a job ASAP with an electrical contractor to start learning the trade."

IMO, this has the greater value.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
In my short experience with with union contractor I was surprised to learn how little overall experience some people had. I was told that there were people that only ran conduit or pulled wire or did trimouts. Anything outside of the assigned function was unknown. Example a conduit tech would have no idea how to trim out or make connections.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I would check and see if there are union jobs available in your area. Many union shops were without work but that was awhile ago. Union definitely pays better --

Non union shops that do commercial work pay better than non union shops that do residential.

That is about all I can offer. Some may feel differently about it than I do.
Click to expand...
I did not wait for them to call me, I picked up the phone and called every contractor in there entire union. This is the only one that would pick me up. I tried everyone. It’s simply if this guy hold enough wait to get me in. He hinted at a letter of recommendation and he does do interviews with the board.
 
AC\DC said:
I never understood that tension between union non union. They each have their benefits.
Click to expand...
It’s hard to be open minded
2phases said:
I did not wait for them to call me, I picked up the phone and called every contractor in there entire union. This is the only one hat would pick me up. I tried everyone. It’s simply if this guy hold enough wait to get me in. He hinted at a letter of recommendation and he does do interviews with the boar
Click to expand...
petersonra said:
Unions have some pretty arcane rules on how many apprentices they can have because of the strange rules about how apprentices are both hired and laid off. It seems to vary from place to place but a lot of locals apprentices enjoy more job security than journeymen do. I think this is because when a company agrees to accept someone as an apprentice they have to all but agree not to lay them off. It is not that simple, but it does limit how many companies will accept someone as an apprentice and how many apprentices they can take.

I think there is also a limit to how many apprentices can be hired in the whole local based on how busy the local is. Someone explained some of the rules to me once, but they were so convoluted that I have long since forgotten them.

I think in the long run you might, and I say might, be better off with a more structured program that the union might offer. From my interactions with both union and non-union electricians over the years, I have come to believe that union apprentices are trained in a more structured way, with somewhat more support, while non-union apprentices get thrown in the deep end to see if they can swim. I am not sure which produces better journeymen, as I have seen good and bad ones come out of both programs.

There is a fair amount of chicanery that goes on in the apprentice selection process. While there is some semblance of looking for the "best" people, some of the dumbest people sometimes manage to get selected, often due to family connections that seem to matter a lot more than anything else. But that might be to my small sample set.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct. I spoke with every company in their union and spoke with well over 10-15 of their GC’s and I told the board that. I did not lack desire, persistence, nor motivation. All i could think of is that I lacked experience and schooling.
 
Ken_S said:
From what I've heard from the union guys in my area is that they have gotten burnt too many times with people coming in with no experience, going through part or all of their program and then leaving. To correct that they are looking for people who have been in the trade and seem to be committed to the trade, I've also heard that some of the guys getting into the apprentice program first worked essentially as a laborer in the union first.

In my region I feel that the union is the way to go, however work can get sparse at times.

No matter what you do you're going to need to start at the bottom, work hard and study. You want to be the go to guy that knows what you're doing.
Click to expand...
I get that, and I know how good I am and how committed I am, but convincing 6 people in 15 mins is very hard to do with no experience or knowledge of the trade. What happens when you get laid off? What route would you take to earn a passive income?
 
infinity said:
Here's a list of the IBEW Locals in Michigan. There are links to their websites with information on joining their apprenticeship program. It may take a while for you to get into the apprenticeship program. I would take a job ASAP with an electrical contractor to start learning the trade. You may even find after a short while that it's not for you. If you do get into the IBEW apprenticeship program remember that you will be drug tested. I've seen some guys get through part of the process of getting in only to be derailed by their recreational activities.

Click to expand...
You would take a job with the union or non union guy and why? And I quit smoking weed, cigarettes, and alcohol about 6 months ago because I want this that bad.
 
2phases said:
W

What would be your reasoning behind that?
Click to expand...
My experience has taught me the premium is in the knowledge and experience gained.
I assume you already know how to sweep and tidy up. You'll learn about material and components in both situations; that's where the Venn diagrams overlap.
The non union circle has a larger area though. (Not a categorical statement, but as it relates to description from your post) Meaning more for you to actually experience. There is no substitute to doing. No amount of identifying, handling, or knowing what something is will support its prudent use in the field. That information can only be gained through practice - which if supervised and overseen, in most cases I think, turns into expertise.
I started in a small shop. 6 guys and we had more work than we could handle. This provided opportunity that otherwise wouldn't have been available.
Only initiative and willingness stood in the way of progress; not just paychecks but learning. My experience has taught me the more initiative i take, the more opportunity is available.
The balance of my career is mirrored in that concept.
Looking back i really enjoyed my apprenticeship. Learning about physical installation and how it related to the NEC, learning about circuit fundamentals and troubleshooting techniques - those can't be learned without doing.
Instead of union non union, I look at it as doing or not doing. And to me doing is more valuable.
Through that lens, from what you've described, the guy offering you a position to be in the field meets that criteria.
Go to work man.







Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
2phases said:
You would take a job with the union or non union guy and why? And I quit smoking weed, cigarettes, and alcohol about 6 months ago because I want this that bad.
Click to expand...
Take ANY job in the trade. Where I hang my hat you would need to get into the apprentice program before they will send you to work. Some IBEW locals may have helpers who can work for a period of time before they get into the apprenticeship.
 
2phases said:
I get that, and I know how good I am and how committed I am, but convincing 6 people in 15 mins is very hard to do with no experience or knowledge of the trade. What happens when you get laid off? What route would you take to earn a passive income?
Click to expand...
being laid off is part of working for a contractor of any kind. it is just part of the game. it is a cyclical business where you can be working 60 hours a week for months and the next thing you know you are on unemployment for a few months. if you want into game, them is the rules it is played by.

you may also have to work far away without getting paid mileage or travel time so you might end up with 8 hours of pay and 6 hours of travel.

you will almost certainly end up with some unpleasant jobs. outside, cold, rain, dirt, limited toilet facilities, etc. if you have never experienced those kind of conditions it can be a real shock to the system.

be absolutely sure you are willing to commit to the whole package before you jump in with both feet.

by the way, you will be doing a lot of physical labor. your muscles will hurt. get used to it. there is a reason that there are not a lot of old electricians in the field. construction is mostly a game for the younger crowd because it beats you up. and over time it takes a toll
 
There are 3 options, and the worst is definitely last...

1) join the union if possible. The training is more methodical. But as noted above, you might only learn to bend pipe. I know one like that. 10 years in the trade and didn't even know which direction to weap wires around device screws. Dang. Benefits are good. Work can be sparse at times. No unassisted thinking allowed.

2) get a job as a non-union helper. The training is more anecdotal. Learn a bit of this and a bit of that. You could still get stuck doing one job if you don't have some discernment. Pay and benefits might be lower, but you might also have more freedom.

3) the very worst thing is to get desperate and sign up for trade school with no experience. As one former boss put it - they'll teach you anything you want to know out of the book, then you'll go out and hurt yourself with a screwdriver 😂
For real, I beg guys to never take this desperate route. I have never EVER met anyone who went to trade school first, then turned out to be a good electrician.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top