Overheated grounded conductors at grounded bus termination

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jrc0109

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Has anyone seen this condition? Several white grounded conductors overheated at the ground bar termination. Electrician is telling a friend of mine in Florida that the entire panel should be replaced. He said it would cost $7000. He said it was caused by the wires not being terminated tightly. I am in NJ so I can’t check it out. The rest of the panel looks fine.
 

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Those neutrals can be cut back a re-terminated. Looks like there may be a MWBC with both circuits on the same leg with the 13th slot on the left size so that should be checked for the entire panel. Really a new panel is needed for repairing that? The electrician is a thief.
 
I would also check a few things when your done. I have seen this before with that type of equipment. When the guys were installing this type I have them do a few things.

Commentary first, with this style of BR load center the secondary Neutral Bar is dependent on one screw that shares the the Main Bonding jumper. This screw is the sole connection point to tie the two neutral bars together. If you look the secondary bar other than that screw it is isolate. It is listed that way however I feel a change in installation practice is warranted when terminating these style of panels. Remember this is also the main bonding jumper for the service.

Now a possible issue, that screw has been know to strip out in the can when the main bonding jumper was terminated and installed under the primary neutral bar where the service grounder conductor is designed to be terminated.

Change in installation methods, Install all grounded conductors on primary neutral bar and all EGC on secondary. This is a prime example of why we do not use a ground bar for grounded conductor termination. The normal operating current is dependent upon that screw and the metal enclose.

Corrective method if required, Remove all load from panel( turn off main). Remove main bonding jumper and relocate to new hole on primary neutral bar with new threaded hole and screw( do not use old screw) in enclosure. Check mating surfaces of the factory Main bonding jumper. Remove old flat un-insulated tie bar. Install a proper sized jumper between primary and secondary Neutral bar.

Check items, Check for loose or bad screw. If found replace panel or install a fix. Remove cut back all defective grounded conductors and move to primary bar. After repairing the damaged grounded conductors check with amp clamp to be sure no line cross of multi wire branch circuits has accrued. If so remediate.

If you can and do so safety. You can check for this condition using you volt meter between the primary and secondary buss looking for voltage drop while those branch circuits/feeders are under load. Any thing .05 or greater you have an issue based on what I have ran across. Just like checking contractors,fuses etc.

This style should no longer be available and new style used. There is also many variations of this style out there so beware and look past the obvious. What you see may be the result of what you don't see. Ask your self why or next time it may be an insurance claim.

I would have him ask his electrician why it has to be replaced and put it in writing. He may have a valid reason as decried above. He does not want to violate the listing of the equipment. May be extreme and I would feel comfortable with a fix and there other type of fixes for this as well other than replacement. No mater I would cut back those wires and move to the other side even if it means installing a ground bars to free up space on the primary bar.

Final word. I did say EGC NOT GEC. All GEC's should be and remain on the primary neutral bar. In the pic they appear to be insulated.
 

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First, It’s not a BR, (black handle) it is a CH, (tan handle) the ground bar that the neutrals are terminated to on the right is for grounds only. No neutrals shall be terminated there. Those neutrals will require moving over to the neutral bar on the left.
 
This supports my reason to change NEC 200.6 ...
 

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First, It’s not a BR, (black handle) it is a CH, (tan handle) the ground bar that the neutrals are terminated to on the right is for grounds only. No neutrals shall be terminated there. Those neutrals will require moving over to the neutral bar on the left.
Sorry about that you are correct CH style.
 
I pulled up a couple pic. Showing the two different styles. One main breaker one main lug. I did not know the the side opposite of the primary netutal bar could not be used for neutrals. I guess I will need to look up instructions. I was sure it was listed for dual neutral bars.
I was under the impression that it could be used in a sub feed by removing the main bonding jumper and then yes EGC only on that side.
Other wise why insulate it from enclouser.
 

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Looked up on Eaton web site.
 

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Now you can see how it can become striped out. Installers hit it with a impact gun when the main bonding jumper is installed on the neutral bar. Eaton refers to the set up as split netutals. Or convertible which can be field removed.
One note is on those split netutals you can not double up grounds as the bar is not listed for it and an additional listed ground bar is required to do so.
 

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Last edited:
First, It’s not a BR, (black handle) it is a CH, (tan handle) the ground bar that the neutrals are terminated to on the right is for grounds only. No neutrals shall be terminated there. Those neutrals will require moving over to the neutral bar on the left.
What about the bar connecting the two bus bars (neutral & egcs)?
 
Now you can see how it can become striped out. Installers hit it with a impact gun when the main bonding jumper is installed on the neutral bar. Eaton refers to the set up as split netutals. Or convertible which can be field removed.
One note is on those split netutals you can not double up grounds as the bar is not listed for it and an additional listed ground bar is required to do so.
Where are you seeing that you can't double up grounds/EGC? All I see is only one neutral per hole.
 
You are correct. On the # of EGC on the netural bar. My mistake.
Thank you for the correction.
Sorry about that.

I did find addition information from Eaton on the split netural.
 

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You are correct. On the # of EGC on the netural bar. My mistake.
Thank you for the correction.
Sorry about that.

I did find addition information from Eaton on the split netural.
I believe the op’s panel is an older version, and does not have the flat buss bar in between, (that I can tell) it only has the bond jumper between the neutral, and the can, so the other bar cannot be used for neutrals.
 
I believe the op’s panel is an older version, and does not have the flat buss bar in between, (that I can tell) it only has the bond jumper between the neutral, and the can, so the other bar cannot be used for neutrals.
No, it's in there, near the bottom. It passes right behind the main breaker.

Neutral current would have to pass through the strap and the removable lug.

If they're large enough, they would permit the second bus to land neutrals.
 
Both bars are insulated from the can, what is wrong with doing it like others do and permanently tie them together and not rely on the bonding screw to tie them together? That way if not a service panel you still have neutrals on both sides of the cabinet.

GE has had that bar between both sides and sometimes people take it out and use one side for neutral and other for EGC. I'd rather see an additional bar or bars added for EGC's and leave neutrals on both sides for non service panels.
 
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