Red tagged for voltage drop what gives? (NY)

[gene6]

We were recently red tagged for voltage drop, inspector cited
"C405.9 Voltage drop across combination of feeders and branch circuits cannot exceed 5%" --2020 ECCC of NY
Where is this in the code?
I thought voltage drop was only a fine print note.
It was an easy fix so we pulled in #8's and got it passed to keep moving, but I have always been told voltage drop was just a suggestion or 'FPN'.
Where and when is this in the code in NY state?
Thank you all for your replies.

 

[Joe Villani]

NYS Energy Conservation Construction Code

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/ny-energy-conservation-code-2020&ved=2ahUKEwiUhaLVtLb6AhWXEVkFHYd4CeIQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Zrc1LcwdYLtSkQhP22URt

 

[wwhitney]

It's in the citation, section C405.9 of the 2020 Energy Conservation Code of NY:

Searchable platform for building codes

Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.

up.codes

Cheers, Wayne

 

[gene6]

Thanks, you guys might actually help me not get fired, as I made the call to replace the wire without going thru proper channels, but got the inspection passed and sheetrock is on schedule.
The bosses are freaking out about the man hours and say we only need to adhere to the NEC, this is a small commercial infill in NY.

 

[hbiss]

Looks like a whole new area for Mike to include in his courses.

-Hal

 

[electrofelon]

I'm from NY and never heard of this code. Where does it apply? So how does one determine what the voltage drop or current used in the calculation is?

 

[Fred B]

Where and when is this in the code in NY state?

I'm from NY and never heard of this code. Where does it apply? So how does one determine what the voltage drop or current used in the calculation is?

This was adopted in 2020 and full implementation has just recently becoming fully enforceable.(NYS) That 5%VD reference is in the section for commercial structures so not sure if application also for residential. There is nothing in that section as to how enforcement is to arive at or test for compliance other than assuming the normal method by considering the desired voltage, loads applied (maximum amperage), size of conductor and length of run (for total impedance).These actual value would be continuously variable depending on supply values from the POCO at any given moment.

Residential code there is an interesting requirement for lighting, that 90% of all residential perminantly installed lights shall be high efficiency lights.

Searchable platform for building codes

Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.

up.codes

 

[GoldDigger]

In any case, the OP's installation is commercial.

 

[ron]

The Energy code has been enforceable in NYS and NYC for many years, it just has been stuck between AHJ's to determine who is going to enforce it. You would think the electrical Inspector would call out voltage drop issues, but it is often left for the Building Inspector, as the Electrical Inspector thinks their jurisdiction is only the NEC. Small minded thinking.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

If that comes to Tulsa where in a lot trouble. I'm going to look out for this one.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I'm from NY and never heard of this code. Where does it apply? So how does one determine what the voltage drop or current used in the calculation is?

I agree with you..
Would the inspector use the breaker rating for the calculation? Demand data??
I’ve seen as I know we all have, many breakers that NEVER will see 1/4 or their rating

 

[ron]

If that comes to Tulsa where in a lot trouble. I'm going to look out for this one.

From what I understand, Tulsa adopted the 2006 International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) for commercial buildings and 2015
International Residential Code (IRC) for residential buildings, which mostly just has lighting control in that early version.

Oklahoma | Building Energy Codes Program

www.energycodes.gov

Digital Codes

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

 

[infinity]

It was an easy fix so we pulled in #8's and got it passed to keep moving, but I have always been told voltage drop was just a suggestion or 'FPN'.

Did the inspector actually perform the VD calculation and tell you that the condcutors were too small?

 

[petersonra]

without a consistent methodology to determine VD just how are they planning to enforce this?

 

[electrofelon]

without a consistent methodology to determine VD just how are they planning to enforce this?

Yeah stupid. Some clueless person sitting at a desk likely came up with this. Also NYS is mostly private third party inspections, gunna be fun getting them to enforce it.

 

[gene6]

Did the inspector actually perform the VD calculation and tell you that the condcutors were too small?

Yes he uses an app.
Its a long complicated run in a huge old warehouse, and do to a entire panel being removed this one load had to be re feed from afar.
Also due to avoiding a concrete bore thru 18" wall, and re-using an existing pipe run almost 1/3 the way it ended up being 450 (ish) feet of conductor, just under a full spool of 10's.
Its a 3 phase 208 load about 17 amps that is remaining, the rest of the area got demoed.

 

[petersonra]

Yes he uses an app.
Its a long complicated run in a huge old warehouse, and do to a entire panel being removed this one load had to be re feed from afar.
Also due to avoiding a concrete bore thru 18" wall, and re-using an existing pipe run almost 1/3 the way it ended up being 450 (ish) feet of conductor, just under a full spool of 10's.
Its a 3 phase 208 load about 17 amps that is remaining, the rest of the area got demoed.

did he use the actual current draw to do the VD calc? Or the calculated load? Or the CB rating?

 

[steve66]

Looks like a whole new area for Mike to include in his courses.

-Hal

The International Energy Conservation Code has been a statewide requirement in Illinois for almost 20 years, yet most smaller electrical contractors act like they have never heard of it.

without a consistent methodology to determine VD just how are they planning to enforce this?

If the NY energy code is anything like the International Energy Code, they don't list a methodology, just a 5% limit. Doesn't say if its supposed to be based on the panel rating, the connected load, calculated demand load, or what.

 

[raberding]

whenever I do VD calcs, it's based on the connected load. Has not been challenged by reviewers (yet)

 

[petersonra]

whenever I do VD calcs, it's based on the connected load. Has not been challenged by reviewers (yet)

I suspect no one challenges it because they do not want to raise any issues they have no answers for, so they accept anything plausible.