Illegal contractors

[Fordean]

I have been continuiosly in middle of contractors Who only have building type licenses Doing electrical
It is getting out of hand on the amount of illegal work I been experiencing
This is to avoid hiring a fully insured and competent electrician Something needs to be done

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You can report them and see if you get any response

 

[infinity]

You can complain to the DCA or the local building department but good luck. It seems like resources are limited when it comes time to investigate these guys. I had an inspector tell me that he was inspecting a permitted job that clearly wasn't being done by an electrician so when he went back for the third or fourth time to inspect he ended up rounding up all of the guys working in the house and asked "which one of you is doing the electrical work"? Finally the taper said it was him as directed by the GC. Many of these GC's pay licensed electricians to sign the permits and then they have their unskilled workers do the work. It's really a problem here in NJ.

 

[Steve16]

Your state should have a department dedicated to licensing and unlicensed persons doing electrical work.

 

[kwired]

You can complain to the DCA or the local building department but good luck. It seems like resources are limited when it comes time to investigate these guys. I had an inspector tell me that he was inspecting a permitted job that clearly wasn't being done by an electrician so when he went back for the third or fourth time to inspect he ended up rounding up all of the guys working in the house and asked "which one of you is doing the electrical work"? Finally the taper said it was him as directed by the GC. Many of these GC's pay licensed electricians to sign the permits and then they have their unskilled workers do the work. It's really a problem here in NJ.

Seems they should at least be contacting the person that signed that permit.

Here the entity responsible for doing the work is who is supposed to apply for the electrical permit. If somebody applies with my credentials I will be getting the permit information in the mail. On line permit application is a thing, they would need my login information to do be able to do it in my name.

If you do not have an electrical contractor license, or some other specialty licenses like fire alarm installer, you can't apply for the permit. There are owner applications but if filing as an owner it will trigger more proof of being able to file said permit. If you don't meet requirements permit will be denied. If approved inspector is the eyes in the field to determine if what was allowed on the application is indeed something that is allowed to be done under an owner's permit.

 

[infinity]

Rules are good but they require enforcement. Enforcement costs money and it seems that no one wants to bother chasing down these guys. NJ has a Board of Electrical Contractors to do this but for some reason they're pretty ineffective.

 

[kwired]

Rules are good but they require enforcement. Enforcement costs money and it seems that no one wants to bother chasing down these guys. NJ has a Board of Electrical Contractors to do this but for some reason they're pretty ineffective.

I'd rather see them chasing down non licensed installers than nit picking at the guys that are generally doing the best they can or even coming up with shirt pocket rules and making hell for the guys that normally aren't trying to cut corners.

 

[Ken_S]

You need to keep reporting them, the board does go after unlicensed work and contractors allowing others to use their license.

 

[drcampbell]

.... It seems like resources are limited when it comes time to investigate ...

This is not an accident or coincidence. This is the Reagan Revolution, sold to the gullible as "getting the government off your back", but the way it plays out is just lowering (almost) everybody's professional standards and standards of living.

And it cuts both ways. One of the people I've met on a site is a Marine Corps-trained aviation mechanic who's working as a construction laborer because he can't scrape together the cash to convert his military MOS into a civilian Airframe & Powerplant certification. A total waste of talent.

 

[Ken_S]

And it cuts both ways. One of the people I've met on a site is a Marine Corps-trained aviation mechanic who's working as a construction laborer because he can't scrape together the cash to convert his military MOS into a civilian Airframe & Powerplant certification. A total waste of tatalent.

I work with a guy this same thing happened to, it's shameful that stuff like this is permitted to happen

 

[VirutalElectrician]

Some of the smaller GCs around here are starting to try and get the home owners to pull their own building permits, instead of the GC pulling it. This of course puts the liability on the HO for correcting code issues if the GC decides to walk away for some reason.

 

[coffeebean]

I encounter the same problem in the central NJ town I inspect in. The GC has the homeowner secure the permit for the electrical work.
The homeowners don't know which end of screw driver they should use, so its pretty obvious. I often question them and tell them that
they are responsible if anything goes wrong the insurance companies do forensic engineering to find out what happened.
When I see "self" on the permit I usually do an inspection that fails several times. I'm trying to protect the integrity of our trade, but
I'm fighting a losing battle.

 

[petersonra]

Some of the smaller GCs around here are starting to try and get the home owners to pull their own building permits, instead of the GC pulling it. This of course puts the liability on the HO for correcting code issues if the GC decides to walk away for some reason.

The HO is ultimately responsible regardless of the name on the permit.

 

[letgomywago]

I encounter the same problem in the central NJ town I inspect in. The GC has the homeowner secure the permit for the electrical work.
The homeowners don't know which end of screw driver they should use, so its pretty obvious. I often question them and tell them that
they are responsible if anything goes wrong the insurance companies do forensic engineering to find out what happened.
When I see "self" on the permit I usually do an inspection that fails several times. I'm trying to protect the integrity of our trade, but
I'm fighting a losing battle.

Something I find odd and I tell everyone who's house I work on and find that something just terrible has been done. Stuff like extension cord instead of romex, loose thhn without conduit, and boxes with backs cut off so that the crazy 2 inch wires could be wirenuted. I tell them that it isn't to hard to do little things like this if you just get a book for homeowner electrical even to see if things were done somewhat right. I have one for plumbing that was very helpful for my own home. Instead either handy hacks or sometimes even the homeowner does this stuff and since they went to YouTube instead of a book they get this crazy stuff. That is if they even bothered to YouTube it.

I just did a small kitchen remodel in a rental home and all that was originally going to happen was a new water heater circuit that's what the new owner Of the rental wanted well took 30 seconds to see that 30 years of electrical obscenity had occurred and so now they have things corrected since the walls were opened up from the leaking old water heater. Still it frustrating since I'm sure these "cheap fixes" that were done before weren't cheaper than doing it right the first time.

 

[tortuga]

I have been continuiosly in middle of contractors Who only have building type licenses Doing electrical

Don't ever move to California its legal there.

 

[gadfly56]

The HO is ultimately responsible regardless of the name on the permit.

Not in NJ. The permit application very clearly delineates whether or not you are doing the work as a homeowner. An EC doing the work has to fill out the technical section and apply his pressure seal to it. That should make it easy to find out who's "renting" their license, as the pressure seal has your license number on it.

 

[petersonra]

Not in NJ. The permit application very clearly delineates whether or not you are doing the work as a homeowner. An EC doing the work has to fill out the technical section and apply his pressure seal to it. That should make it easy to find out who's "renting" their license, as the pressure seal has your license number on it.

It is still the HO's problem if things blowup.

 

[tortuga]

It is still the HO's problem if things blowup.

NJ uses the IBC, and I think it would be under section 105 permits;

CHAPTER 1 SCOPE AND ADMINISTRATION - 2021 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE (IBC)

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

I'll add they both probably get fined, the unlicensed person is soliciting electrical work without a NJ license, owner fails to ensure proper permits for their property.

 

[Ken_S]

NJ uses the IBC, and I think it would be under section 105 permits;

CHAPTER 1 SCOPE AND ADMINISTRATION - 2021 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE (IBC)

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

I'll add they both probably get fined, the unlicensed person is soliciting electrical work without a NJ license, owner fails to ensure proper permits for their property.

From reading the list of NJ offenders, NJ only goes after the individual doing unlicensed work.

 

[GoldDigger]

From reading the list of NJ offenders, NJ only goes after the individual doing unlicensed work.

But the owner still has the responsibility for paying a second time to get the job done.