Conductor insulation damage
- Thread starter briankilea
- Start date
- Status
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Simple enough repair if every box does not require work.
No fix, no pay.
No fix, no pay.
synchro
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Occupation
- EE
I believe there's an informational note under 110.12 that accepted industry practices are described in NECA 1-2015, Standard for Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction.
In NECA 1-2015 there's this:
9. Wire and Cable
c) Wire and cable shall be installed so as not to damage the insulation or cable sheath.
In NECA 1-2015 there's this:
9. Wire and Cable
c) Wire and cable shall be installed so as not to damage the insulation or cable sheath.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
But if it was my house, I would want it replaced. No way I would stand for a bunch of taped up conductors.
SterTheDer
Member
- Location
- Iowa
- Occupation
- Consulting Engineer
Just spitballing ideas from 2023 code:
I agree, tape is tacky, is there a U.L listed heat shrink that would be better?
It seems that cutting that connection and using a wire-nut or lever-nut would be a 'compliant' repair, though clearly worse in nearly every way than just wrapping with tape.
Just my 2C
Splices and junctions need to be made with products 'listed and rated for the use intended', so the repair would need to be with a product listed for insulation repair.
I agree, tape is tacky, is there a U.L listed heat shrink that would be better?
It seems that cutting that connection and using a wire-nut or lever-nut would be a 'compliant' repair, though clearly worse in nearly every way than just wrapping with tape.
Just my 2C
briankilea
Member
- Location
- Pensacola, Florida
- Occupation
- Engineer, Brewer, Business Owner
Had a few minutes to stop by the house today. Noticed this posted...
Guess I'll either have to argue with my builder that I won't accept the work or I'll just have to go back myself and fix all of it. Apparently not a concern to the electrical inspectors here.
I'll continue to bug the inspections office and see if I can actually talk to one of their inspectors. I left a message yesterday in hopes I could meet with them when they went to the house but never heard back...
Guess I'll either have to argue with my builder that I won't accept the work or I'll just have to go back myself and fix all of it. Apparently not a concern to the electrical inspectors here.
I'll continue to bug the inspections office and see if I can actually talk to one of their inspectors. I left a message yesterday in hopes I could meet with them when they went to the house but never heard back...
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Well, it wouldn't work very well if it wasn't.
Agreed; as I said earlier, why cut and splice an intact conductor?
The insulation is merely slit, not missing; just cover the slit.
Send them the pictures you posted here and invite them to to this conversation
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Ringing the outer jacket can do that. Makes a tiny cut on conductor that's not seen until you bend and twist, then you have bare copper showing. Similar if going too deep. I try my best but do damage a wire occasionally. I like heat shrink tubing for these fixes.
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Why should there be? It's just common sense that when a cable or conductor is damaged it needs to be repaired or replaced. Certainly when you see copper exposed there is damage.
-Hal
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
I’m surprised no one has cited Section 110.12. It may seem to be a bit ambiguous but the IN references a very specific standard.
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Sorry synchro - I see you did cite it. The question then becomes: Is it enforceable?
Answer: If it’s subject to OSHA, it is under the general duty clause.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Yes it is unfortunate we need codes for such common Sense things, but we clearly do.
timlahr
Member
- Location
- St paul, Mn, US
In my opinion, unless you are really adept at using a razor knife to draw across the sheathing without penetrating the conductors, don't do it. Draw the tip of the utility blade down the length a ways, the bare ground wire is in the middle of the cable so keep the cut down the centerline of the cable. Of course if you "run off course" and push too hard you may cut into one of the circuit conductors, however it's usually easier to notice it because it's not inconspicuously right where the wire enters the box.Is this a code violation or just considered sloppy electrical work? Anything specific in the NEC or NFPA?
There are a lot of ways to splice a cable type installation. Whichever way you do it , you have to learn the method you prefer to the point where it delivers an adequate and SAFE result.
The person who did this job probably did not learn under a competent J-Man or Master and just keeps going along producing poor results. AfCI's ( much as I hate them) are made for these clowns.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The cables shown in the OP's picturess were damaged because they weren't stripped prior to inserting them into the boxes. I only do that with cables fished in during remodel work.
Back when I was a helper, I was taught to pinch the sheath in two or three places around the cable with the corner of my pliers, creating holes and cuts, then sliding it off of the wires.
Back when I was a helper, I was taught to pinch the sheath in two or three places around the cable with the corner of my pliers, creating holes and cuts, then sliding it off of the wires.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
I always strip with a knife, after the cable is in the box. It really isn't that hard to not damage the cable
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
- Status