They will be. While it’s more than twice the power, they’ll only be there a couple hours or so. A $25 (I have no idea what a campsite with hookup costs these day,it probably more) campsite rental for 20KwH of juice is a profitable transaction.
EV rated circuit breakers
- Thread starter blayton1212
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They will be. While it’s more than twice the power, they’ll only be there a couple hours or so. A $25 (I have no idea what a campsite with hookup costs these day,it probably more) campsite rental for 20KwH of juice is a profitable transaction.
Hal if my math is correct I think in 1971 you paid as much as people do for a Tesla today.I paid $5000 for my brand new 1971 Pontiac GTO.
-Hal
$5000 in 1971 = $37,140.74 in 2023.
Do you still have the GTO? Was it the convertible model?
What about 6-50 receptacles, has anyone done a comparison of them?The EV community has created a huge demand for these, thus the price hikes. They were $98 at Grainger last October.
Here is a comparison:
They also differ on the wire side. The Leviton has screwdriver clamp screws that twist directly on the wire, while the Hubbell has Allen screws with saddles.
Has anyone complained about the 6-50's melting or just 14-50's?
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
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Not sure they made a convertible. It did have the black textured paint on the roof to make it look like a convertible. Sadly, I no longer have it. I sold it after a few years to buy my first work van.
-Hal
I’ve not seen any such discussion of 6-50s. Perhaps due to the fact the probably more than 80% of plug in EVSEs come standard with a 14-50.
kwired
Electron manager
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Make your own adapter cordset with the $213 Hubbell plug and connectors?
kwired
Electron manager
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Probably still using less energy cost than the daily rental rate charge is, plus can rent a spot more than once a day for those only staying long enough to charge their vehicle.
kwired
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Probably because there is more 6-50's already available to plug into as a general rule. As has come up in the discussion already is popular in the RV world. 6-50 is common welding receptacle but not as many people have welders at home as might have use for an RV receptacle or even RV receptacle for guests at any location.
hillbilly1
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X
if it was profitable, they would put in charging stations in the parking lot, and just rent the parking spot.
It’s only profitable when used. You’re not going to attract daily, regular drivers to charge. Only the occasional one who didn’t plan their trip well. In that case, it’s profitable to rent them an open hookup that would otherwise sit idle.
hillbilly1
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It would be cheaper for the EV owner vs getting a tow to a charging station, but pretty expensive for the charge LOL! Still having fun in your MachE? Saw one in town last month, thought something looked odd about it until I seen the designation! A friend of mine said his sister was fuming because she had to be towed, all of the charging stations along her route were broke, or had somebody using them.
I do like the car - very much. One of the best parts is never having to take it to a gas station. I just need to get my wife to fill up her own car and almost never have to go there.
While my car is under warranty, a free tow to the nearest charge station is included should I need it. I have no plans to use it!
Non-functional DC fast charging stations are starting to become more and more of an issue. It seems the the charging companies are a lot more interested in building new stations than maintaining existing.
hillbilly1
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A lot of electronics in those fast chargers, that and software issues. Lightning was constantly taking out the level 2 DC I installed years ago. Of course it was sitting on top of a rock! I had to do concrete cover on my feeder because it was solid rock a foot down!
rlqdot
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it is my understanding that, at least on Tesla vehicles, the charging rate, which correlates to the input amperage at the charger, is adjustable. if the charging rate on the vehicle is set higher than the available input amperage, something is going to fail - the circuit breaker will trip (or worse) or the wiring to the charger will overheat (or worse) or the receptacle that the charger is plugged into will overheat (or worse). newer Teslas apparently have auto-sensing devices that regulate the charging power, but those sensors rely on use of a Tesla charging station that has been properly commissioned, and commissioning is based on the amperage of the supply circuit. this discussion seems to imply that the OP is having problems with generic NEMA 14-50 receptacles and i wonder if that problem is rooted in the vehicle attempting to charge at a rate above the capacity of the circuit that supplies the receptacle.
The charge rate will not exceed the max rate of the EVSE regardless of what the car requests. The highest capacity EVSE that plugs in to a 14-50 is rated 40A. The charging current can never exceed that.
Have a look at the J1772 standard.
Thats a good question
The SAE J1772 seems to have two values the "continuous" and "short term", I'd like to know the time limit of the short term value.
I recently ammetered a 30A EVSE tripping a 40 breaker after about 20 min of changing, I verified the EVSE was set to 30A, the car was pulling about 36 amps so that must have been that "short term" current. I then dialed the EVSE down till the breaker would not trip.
I dont know what the accuracy tolerance of a residential breaker is or my old clamp on ammeter for that matter.
It did make me wonder if that J1772 PWM signal could get distorted making a car pull more than it should.
wwhitney
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Does the car even make a request? I thought that the EVSE just advertises the allowable current.
But I believe the system just depends on the car honoring the advertised limit; if the car is faulty and draws more than it should, I'm not aware that J1772 requires the EVSE to do anything about that.
Cheers, Wayne
jaggedben
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If the receptacle is melting before the breaker trips then arguably it has zilch to do with the car. The breaker should protect the receptacle, period. Just like if someone plugs in some other non-EV load.
rlqdot
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again, i am not an EV owner, but i am designing Tesla dealerships (Sales, Service and Delivery Centers as they name them) and Tesla Collision Repair Centers ... what i read on the Internet about Tesla vehicles is that they have sensors that somehow communicate with the Tesla-branded chargers to automatically set the charge rate on the vehicles (at least on newer releases of their vehicles), but that relies on the charger being properly commissioned when it was installed. on the Tesla dealerships and collision centers, Tesla sends an employee to commission all of the charging stations and, i am told, they are set based on the amperage of the supply breaker. that is somehow communicated down the charging cord to the vehicle to get the correct charging rate set in the vehicle when it is connected. if this is not true, then i cannot understand how a given Tesla vehicle can charge from a NEMA 1450 receptacle in a repair facility (connected to a 50 amp 2 pole 208 volt circuit and delivering approximately 8.32 KW), then be driven to a residence and plugged into a NEMA 1450 receptacle fed from a 50 amp 2 pole 240 volt circuit and capable of delivering approximately 9.6 KW, then driven to an office building and plugged into a Tesla Generation 3 Wall Connector fed from a 60 amp 2 pole 208 volt circuit capable of delivering 9.6 KW, then driven to a supercharger station and plugged into a Tesla supercharger fed from a 600 amp 480 volt 3 phase circuit and capable of delivering up to [450 amps DC at up to 500 volts DC, maxing out at around 225 KW when using the "CCS2" or "GB" handle] or [350 amps DC at up to 500 volts DC, maxing out at around 175 KW when using the Tesla connecting handle] (these values straight from Tesla publications outlining their supercharger operations).
if charging is done based on a simple cord equipped with a 1450 plug on one end and a Tesla charging handle on the other end, plugged into a 1450 receptacle, i don't see how the charging rate can be set automatically. again, i admit that i don't own a Tesla or have first-hand understanding of how the charging rates are controlled on-vehicle, but if receptacle melting or circuit breaker tripping is being experienced, in my mind that is probably due to the wrong charging rate at the vehicle end of the circuit.
if charging is done based on a simple cord equipped with a 1450 plug on one end and a Tesla charging handle on the other end, plugged into a 1450 receptacle, i don't see how the charging rate can be set automatically. again, i admit that i don't own a Tesla or have first-hand understanding of how the charging rates are controlled on-vehicle, but if receptacle melting or circuit breaker tripping is being experienced, in my mind that is probably due to the wrong charging rate at the vehicle end of the circuit.
Request is not the right term, and my previous post was misleading. The charger is in the car and it always determines the charge rate. There is a handshake between the EVSE and the car where the EVSE tells the car what’s available and the charger in the car takes what it wants up to the limit sent from the EVSE. That’s oversimplified, but basically what’s happening. You’re right, all the EVSE can do tell the car what the current max rate is, and the car has (is supposed) to oblige.
Most EVSEs have internal heat sensors that will tell the car to slow down if overtemp is detected. And the car will also slow the rate as the battery nears full charge.
Most cars (except Fords) allow the user to select a rate limit. The setting is a max limit, not a requested charge rate.
I would expect the system design to be failsafe in that if something goes wrong, it (the EVSE) shuts off before the allowable charge rate is exceeded. I don’t know enough about the intricacies of these systems to know if that’s the case or not.
All good info, thanks.
Regarding the last paragraph, a couple things. There is no simple cord. There is a control device (EVSE) between the outlet and the car. The EVSE communicates to the car using the J1772 protocol telling the car the maximum available charge rate. See my previous post for more details.
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