EV rated circuit breakers

[Little Bill]

I had a customer supply one of those factory “RV” receptacles and enclosure they bought off of Amazon, real bad quality. Terminal screws wouldn’t hold the wires, they would pop out when you tried to put it back into the too small enclosure. Ended up pulling a MidWest one off the truck and installing it. I didn’t want to be responsible for burning up everything in his motor home if the neutral popped out.

Saw some that the terminal screws would (supposed to) clamp the wire. There were tons of reviews saying a #6 wouldn't fit in the terminals. The mfg remedied that by putting in instructions to split the wire, making a "V" before putting the wire in!

Another problem, and I actually encountered that one, is the KOs aren't actually stamped/cut. They look like they were just in a mold that made it look like KOs. I beat one box out of proportion trying to get the KO out. They now include instructions to use a hole saw or step bit!

 

[hillbilly1]

Saw some that the terminal screws would (supposed to) clamp the wire. There were tons of reviews saying a #6 wouldn't fit in the terminals. The mfg remedied that by putting in instructions to split the wire, making a "V" before putting the wire in!

Another problem, and I actually encountered that one, is the KOs aren't actually stamped/cut. They look like they were just in a mold that made it look like KOs. I beat one box out of proportion trying to get the KO out. They now include instructions to use a hole saw or step bit!

That was exactly the one they bought! The manufacturer did have the same instructions included.

 

[letgomywago]

The reason I asked is I almost always use a Midwest brand one and I don't thing I have ever had to replace a worn out one or over heated one. I have replaced other higher amp receptacles that have melted but never an RV one.

 

[jaggedben]

An RV probably doesn't use as much current continuously as an EV does.

 

[letgomywago]

An RV probably doesn't use as much current continuously as an EV does.

2 ACs going full bore for the menopausal RV travelers I think does load them hard. I've seen the inlaws trip the feeder breaker on theirs.

 

[retirede]

If within a city and it is in use quite a bit of the time it is likely profitable. If at a campsite I doubt it will be used all that much, in the future maybe more use but now not so much. I still don't think it even pays for itself very quickly in that situation. Payment systems and rented spaces costs still count against the bottom line. A company that does noting but public charging maybe does get better pricing on the payment system equipment and maybe data services (particularly internet service) in some cases though. If they have their own data network they will have to run a network of cables/fiber or have wireless network systems to have to install and maintain. Again maybe more profitable in a city but in a remote campground area you possibly putting similar cost into something that only serves a limited number of those charging stations compared to the multiple stations in the city.

Agree 100%.

The suggestion to have dedicated charging stations at campgrounds wasn’t mine.

 

[retirede]

2 ACs going full bore for the menopausal RV travelers I think does load them hard. I've seen the inlaws trip the feeder breaker on theirs.

The common RV AC units (Coleman and Dometic) are rated 13A at 120V. They should never be a problem when plugged in to a 14-50. Some campsites only offer a 30A, 120V receptacle. That’s when you run into issues with dual ACs.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

UL 498 requires temperature testing at full rated current with an attachment plug inserted and carrying the current. The maximum permitted temperature rise permitted is 30°C. The current is turned on and left and the temperature is recorded every 5 minutes. The test is concluded when there have been three consecutive measurements that do not show an increase in the temperature.

This points towards manufacturing defects, installation errors, or unlisted products.

 

[retirede]

UL 498 requires temperature testing at full rated current with an attachment plug inserted and carrying the current. The maximum permitted temperature rise permitted is 30°C. The current is turned on and left and the temperature is recorded every 5 minutes. The test is concluded when there have been three consecutive measurements that do not show an increase in the temperature.

This points towards manufacturing defects, installation errors, or unlisted products.

The problem is that they only test new devices - correct me if I’m mistaken. I’d like to see the test repeated on devices after a good number of plug insertions and/or thermal cycles.

 

[wwhitney]

The problem is that they only test new devices - correct me if I’m mistaken.

UL498 Section 118, the temperature test Don described, is to be conducted after the test in UL Section 117 Overload Test. That test involves 50 cycles of insertion and removal of an attachment plug with a load of 150% of nominal current.

However, Section 117 does says that "a receptacle that is intended for disconnecting use only and not for current interruption is not required to be subject to this test." It would be interesting to know if all 14-50 receptacles get subject to the Section 117 test, or just some of them. And if the latter, how to identify those receptacles.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[kwired]

2 ACs going full bore for the menopausal RV travelers I think does load them hard. I've seen the inlaws trip the feeder breaker on theirs.

As mentioned they are only like 13 amp rated units. They are basically same units whether a single unit in a 30 amp 120 volt supplied RV or two units in a 50 amp 120/240 supplied RV. Two unit RV's very likely also have them on opposing "phases" so there is a fair amount of capacity left for the remaining loads that are not typically so continuous in nature.

We have lots of farm places that utilize 10-50 receptacles on grain bins for portable augers, many with up to 10 HP motors on them. Now they are often getting a motor that is rated 12.5 HP - wanting to move product a little faster. They still tend to hold up on those receptacles that have been set up for 10 HP, main thing is if the breaker will hold when starting, which they usually will, then they don't complain about anything and continue to use what is there. They seem to last forever if not subjected to moisture or physical abuse though. They using 10-50 mostly because that is what they had for many years, and when putting up a new bin, they still want that because if you don't use that they need to either change all their existing ones or make a cordset adapter as they use the portable auger at multiple locations.

 

[tortuga]

The test is concluded when there have been three consecutive measurements that do not show an increase in the temperature.

Hmm just 3 X 5min or a 15 min temp level off time? How long does a typical test run for 30 min ?
I'd love to see someone go to a big box store and buy a 3 pack of regular residential grade duplex receptacles and set up a time laps and thermal camera and test at 1800W for 30 days.
The receptacles should be in a plastic box in a insulated wall.

 

[goldstar]

For an EV charging outlet, I believe Tesla recommends (requires?) the Hubbell 9450A.

Have you checked the prices ? Do a search - you'll find they run anywhere from $12 to over $200. Can't figure that one out. What are they made from - gold ?

 

[retirede]

Have you checked the prices ? Do a search - you'll find they run anywhere from $12 to over $200. Can't figure that one out. What are they made from - gold ?

I think they figured out that many EV enthusiasts will pay that much.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

I think they figured out that many EV enthusiasts will pay that much.

Or it's just supply and demand?