CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION - Back Up Generation

[mtnelect]

The California Energy Commission may want to consider allocating funds for charging infrastructure paired with batteries or
backup generators that can function independently of the grid.

 

[gadfly56]

The California Energy Commission may want to consider allocating funds for charging infrastructure paired with batteries or
backup generators that can function independently of the grid.

And why wouldn't Generac want a place at a $1 billion dollar feeding trough?

 

[mtnelect]

And why wouldn't Generac want a place at a $1 billion dollar feeding trough?

In California we are in a reality check. You have Solar, Wind Farms planed higher than the Eiffel Tower 10 miles off our coast, Geothermal, Electric Vehicles, Treadmills that charge batteries, what else ? I bought my home in 1975, and Edison was having power outages monthly. So, I went to Cosco and bought a Coleman 4K generator. I never dreamed that I would have to put it to use so often. On Monday May 15, we have another power outage coming up, a pole replacement. They have upgraded their primaries to 4160K to provide more power. This summer I won't be able to run my AC when the power goes out because you now have EV's added to the load. Then add closing the nuclear power plant at Diablo Canyon. What else ?

 

[letgomywago]

In California we are in a reality check. You have Solar, Wind Farms planed higher than the Eiffel Tower 10 miles off our coast, Geothermal, Electric Vehicles, Treadmills that charge batteries, what else ? I bought my home in 1975, and Edison was having power outages monthly. So, I went to Cosco and bought a Coleman 4K generator. I never dreamed that I would have to put it to use so often. On Monday May 15, we have another power outage coming up, a pole replacement. They have upgraded their primaries to 4160K to provide more power. This summer I won't be able to run my AC when the power goes out because you now have EV's added to the load. Then add closing the nuclear power plant at Diablo Canyon. What else ?

Soon EMF radiation will be known to cause cancer in California byt nor elsewhere.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I'm sure California is going to ban any kind of internal combustion engine powered backup generators sometime soon.

 

[wwhitney]

This summer I won't be able to run my AC when the power goes out because you now have EV's added to the load.

During a heat wave, the increased demand from A/C may challenge the grid's generating capacity, but at times of peak A/C demand there is likely to be very little concurrent EV charging going on. My understanding is that the spike in A/C demand is at least an order of magnitude greater the concurrent EV demand. In other words, if we could push a magic button and disconnect all the EVs at the time of peak A/C demand, it would make very little difference presently.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mtnelect]

Soon EMF radiation will be known to cause cancer in California byt nor elsewhere.

Did you have to turn your AC on today ? It was reported that Washington and Oregon had a temperature of 92 degrees today.

 

[mtnelect]

I'm sure California is going to ban any kind of internal combustion engine powered backup generators sometime soon.

Very true. The CEC is considering banning any AC below 82 degrees this summer.

 

[letgomywago]

Did you have to turn your AC on today ? It was reported that Washington and Oregon had a temperature of 92 degrees today.

Only in the car. 92 isn't hot really when it's over 95 and 100 it is but we've all become wimps in the last 50 years since central AC has become the norm. I have been hooking up a lot of ACs and Minisplits the last month though

I'll add I wore jeans and a t shirt not shorts. If you acclimate and tough out the not so hot and slightly warm and cold then the extremes are more manageable.

 

[mtnelect]

Only in the car. 92 isn't hot really when it's over 95 and 100 it is but we've all become wimps in the last 50 years since central AC has become the norm. I have been hooking up a lot of ACs and Minisplits the last month though

I'll add I wore jeans and a t shirt not shorts. If you acclimate and tough out the not so hot and slightly warm and cold then the extremes are more manageable.

Something is going on with the weather ... We have been getting calls for AC from the coastal cities like New Port Beach.

 

[mtnelect]

During a heat wave, the increased demand from A/C may challenge the grid's generating capacity, but at times of peak A/C demand there is likely to be very little concurrent EV charging going on. My understanding is that the spike in A/C demand is at least an order of magnitude greater the concurrent EV demand. In other words, if we could push a magic button and disconnect all the EVs at the time of peak A/C demand, it would make very little difference presently.

Cheers, Wayne

So, what happens if your EV needs charging and have an emergency ?

 

[letgomywago]

Something is going on with the weather ... We have been getting calls for AC from the coastal cities like New Port Beach.

Ya I think things aren't stabilized at all

 

[wwhitney]

So, what happens if your EV needs charging and have an emergency ?

Then you charge. But like I said, that's going to be a small effect relative to the surge in A/C demand due to a heat wave.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mtnelect]

Then you charge. But like I said, that's going to be a small effect relative to the surge in A/C demand due to a heat wave.

Cheers, Wayne

We are here from the government, and we want to help you.

 

[wwhitney]

We are here from the government, and we want to help you.

And that's generally true. Sometimes a pain, but generally true.

On this EV misinformation, see e.g. the following news article from during last year's flex alerts due to a September heat wave. The executive summary is that the CEC updates its peak demand forecasts every two years, and for the latest forecast (2021), EVs were expected to at worst be 4% of peak demand in 2030. If you look at how much peak demand changes due to a heat wave, it's way way more than 4%.

Even with mass adoption, EVs only increase electricity demand slightly

EVs will account for 2% to 4% of electricity use by 2030

spectrumnews1.com

Cheers, Wayne

 

[electrofelon]

And that's generally true. Sometimes a pain, but generally true.

On this EV misinformation, see e.g. the following news article from during last year's flex alerts due to a September heat wave. The executive summary is that the CEC updates its peak demand forecasts every two years, and for the latest forecast (2021), EVs were expected to at worst be 4% of peak demand in 2030. If you look at how much peak demand changes due to a heat wave, it's way way more than 4%.

Even with mass adoption, EVs only increase electricity demand slightly

EVs will account for 2% to 4% of electricity use by 2030

spectrumnews1.com

Cheers, Wayne

No no, EV's are going to collapse the electrical grid. For some reason that never happened when AC started becoming the norm in the south, but EV's will surely be the end

 

[letgomywago]

No no, EV's are going to collapse the electrical grid. For some reason that never happened when AC started becoming the norm in the south, but EV's will surely be the end

Lol. We'll just change load calcs again so now we still are under 200 amps or even 100 amps. Practically this can be done since 3va is a lot and heat pumps are being pushed for WH and HVAC so there might be enough efficiency now. My house hardly ever drew close to my load calc and most people want to charge at night or durring the work day not dinner time.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Being that Ca consumes about 10 million gallons of diesel per day. And each gallon of diesel is about 138,000 BTUs. Just for easy round figures 1/3 of that becomes useful mechanical energy.

I'm getting that they will need an additional 134,812,692 KWh per day to replace all the diesel powered trucks and equipment with electric.

Number seems too small, I may have made mistakes here, I just woke up and need my caffeine fix

 

[jaggedben]

Being that Ca consumes about 10 million gallons of diesel per day. And each gallon of diesel is about 138,000 BTUs. Just for easy round figures 1/3 of that becomes useful mechanical energy.

I'm getting that they will need an additional 134,812,692 KWh per day to replace all the diesel powered trucks and equipment with electric.

Number seems too small, I may have made mistakes here, I just woke up and need my caffeine fix

Seems about right, maybe a little high.

Looking up Tesla Semi (1.7kwh/mile, or .58m/kwh, vs diesel semis at 6mpg) I get that basically 10 kwh replaces a gallon of fuel. FWIW this seems to be about where things come out for similar class EV to gasoline vehicle comparisons I've looked at (if I average out the Priuses and the Bentleys). Always seems in the neighborhood of 10kwh to a gallon. Going by gov't published averages for cars that's probably a little high (on average). (EVs don't have to sacrifice performance for efficiency in the same way.) But given the slighly higher energy content of diesel 10kWh per gallon seems about right.

All that is to say, your number is definitely the right order of magnitude and close enough for discussion.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I'm not so sure I'd trust any numbers Musk claims about his "Semi". Not saying they are right or wrong, just that the source is suspect. Personally I would look to some of the established Class-8 truck manufacturers who have actually had electric trucks working in the field for a few years. What their numbers are, I really don't know.

NYC and Republic Services have been using these for 4 or 5 years now.