Romex in a commercial Garage

[Buck Parrish]

Is NM romex allowed?
I know it's allowed in most commercial buildings. But what type is a commercial garage?
Here's a pic.

 

[AC\DC]

No pic, as long as building codes deem it the type of structure nmb is allowed in. I think 3,4,5 then I see no problem.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Ok, thanks, the pics were too big as my internet is down due to the mid Western storms last week.

 

[augie47]

Two things you might give thought to:
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and NMS cables shall not be permitted as follows:
(4) In commercial garages having hazardous (classified) locations as defined in 511.3

334.10 Uses Permitted. Type NM, Type NMC, and Type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following, except as prohibited in 334.12:
(3) Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of mate‐ rial that has at least a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.

 

[Buck Parrish]

That's not temporary.

 

[kwired]

When you say commercial garage do you mean something covered by art 511 or something else? If 511 applies NM cable isn't allowed at all, even in non classified areas.

 

[Joethemechanic]

View attachment 2566190
That's not temporary.

WTH. All those are connected and just hanging out the front?

 

[Buck Parrish]

When you say commercial garage do you mean something covered by art 511 or something else? If 511 applies NM cable isn't allowed at all, even in non classified areas.

It's a heavy duty garage that will work on any thing. They have 5 large bays and one big enough for transfer trucks. They'll have three welders that run on propane.

 

[Buck Parrish]

WTH. All those are connected and just hanging out the front?

No , it looks like that in the pic. But they do go in the side. It's as if the wires were to short to go all the way to the top then 90 down. I know it's crazy right.
They done all the work then called me to install a meter.

 

[kwired]

It's a heavy duty garage that will work on any thing. They have 5 large bays and one big enough for transfer trucks. They'll have three welders that run on propane.

There will be classified locations, at very least anything below 18" above floor level, and of course all the area in pits.

511.7 covers all the other wiring and tells what wiring methods are permitted. NM is not in the list.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I met with the guys that did the work. I was trying to tell them a 200A panel is to small. But they didn't understand me and I don't speak their language either.
The wiring I have seen just on the outside with out opening any thing is horrible, You can see 14 romex and 12 in the same boxes in numerous places,

 

[Joethemechanic]

No , it looks like that in the pic. But they do go in the side. It's as if the wires were to short to go all the way to the top then 90 down. I know it's crazy right.
They done all the work then called me to install a meter.

The scariest part is they thought that is acceptable. I can't imagine what it looks like when someone starts opening boxes

 

[Buck Parrish]

The scariest part is they thought that is acceptable. I can't imagine what it looks like when someone starts opening boxes

Yes, allot of the wiring is touching the metal without protection too.
In the pic you can see they used plumbing pipe as protection through the metal. But the bottom hole didn't get any. Again this is just what we can see from a distance.

 

[Buck Parrish]

This county has no inspections and no permits. (LOF)
I am the only licensed electrician in the entire county. Although there is not alot of population in this county. It is growing.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Yes, allot of the wiring is touching the metal without protection too.
In the pic you can see they used plumbing pipe as protection through the metal. But the bottom hole didn't get any. Again this is just what we can see from a distance.

how many circuits? What are they running the stuff like the air compressor off of?

 

[kwired]

This county has no inspections and no permits. (LOF)

That kind of makes it hard to decide whether to do what you were asked to do or not since no AHJ is going to enforce anything, yet you are connected to the install so that increases your potential liability should something ever happen here and they decide there was code violations that possibly caused the issue.

 

[kwired]

how many circuits? What are they running the stuff like the air compressor off of?

Might be a "budget compressor", large tank for surge ability, but still can run on just a 20 amp 240 volt circuit and won't keep up if there is a lot of demand. Just a guess based on how they chose to have wiring installed

 

[Buck Parrish]

The sh

Might be a "budget compressor", large tank for surge ability, but still can run on just a 20 amp 240 volt circuit and won't keep up if there is a lot of demand. Just a guess based on how they chose to have wiring installed

The auto tractor and truck repair shop is not open yet. The owner has lots of nice things. He gives the impression of a classy guy that likes things done right. . He just didn't know how bad they were screwing it up.
I

 

[Joethemechanic]

I would think at minimum he's going to need 250 amp three phase

 

[Fred B]

Man, that many bundled would need to be derated as well.
310.15(B)(3) Adjustment Factors.
(a) More than Three Current-Carrying Conductors. Where the number of current-carrying conductors in a raceway or cable exceeds three, or where single conductors or multiconductor cables are installed without maintaining spacing for a continuous length longer than 600 mm (24 in.) and are not installed in raceways, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be reduced as shown in Table 310.15(B)(3)(a). Each current-carrying conductor of a paralleled set of conductors shall be counted as a current-carrying conductor.

Not sure if your site qualifies under 511, but if it does you may have Class 1 requirements and it then prohibits the use of NM.
511.1 Scope.
These occupancies shall include locations used for service and repair operations in connection with self-propelled vehicles (including, but not limited to, passenger automobiles, buses, trucks, and tractors) in which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are used for fuel or power.

NM allowed in specific construction types
334.10(3)
Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.
Informational Note No. 1:
Types of building construction and occupancy classifications are defined in NFPA 220-

NFPA 220
4.6 Type V (111 or 000) Construction.
Type V (111 or 000) construction shall be that type in which structural elements, walls, arches, floors, and roofs are entirely or partially of wood or other approved material. [5000:7.2.6]

Of course if there is no codes being followed and no enforcement, then it doesn't matter what the code says. Sounds like you are working in the Electrical Wild West, and everyone is carrying a gun and does as he pleases.