Romex in a commercial Garage

[Sea Nile]

Yes, allot of the wiring is touching the metal without protection too.
In the pic you can see they used plumbing pipe as protection through the metal. But the bottom hole didn't get any. Again this is just what we can see from a distance.

Looks like they used PEX water pipe to protect from the sharp edges. Plus that bundle is very tight. Bet that will generate some heat.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Man, that many bundled would need to be derated as well.
310.15(B)(3) Adjustment Factors.
(a) More than Three Current-Carrying Conductors. Where the number of current-carrying conductors in a raceway or cable exceeds three, or where single conductors or multiconductor cables are installed without maintaining spacing for a continuous length longer than 600 mm (24 in.) and are not installed in raceways, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be reduced as shown in Table 310.15(B)(3)(a). Each current-carrying conductor of a paralleled set of conductors shall be counted as a current-carrying conductor.

Not sure if your site qualifies under 511, but if it does you may have Class 1 requirements and it then prohibits the use of NM.
511.1 Scope.
These occupancies shall include locations used for service and repair operations in connection with self-propelled vehicles (including, but not limited to, passenger automobiles, buses, trucks, and tractors) in which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are used for fuel or power.

NM allowed in specific construction types
334.10(3)
Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.
Informational Note No. 1:
Types of building construction and occupancy classifications are defined in NFPA 220-

NFPA 220
4.6 Type V (111 or 000) Construction.
Type V (111 or 000) construction shall be that type in which structural elements, walls, arches, floors, and roofs are entirely or partially of wood or other approved material. [5000:7.2.6]

Of course if there is no codes being followed and no enforcement, then it doesn't matter what the code says. Sounds like you are working in the Electrical Wild West, and everyone is carrying a gun and does as he pleases.

I heard their's a state law stating the international building code must be followed.

But their is no AHJ in this county.

 

[Joethemechanic]

But their is no AHJ in this county.

I almost want to move there. Sounds interesting. No building permits at all?

 

[Buck Parrish]

I almost want to move there. Sounds interesting. No building permits at all?

You're required to get a permit through the health dept if you're installing a new septic system.
But nobody looks at your building structure. Their are no inspectors.
The power company just makes sure you did not put the grounding wire in the meter base. That's it.

 

[Joethemechanic]

The power company just makes sure you did not put the grounding wire in the meter base. That's it.

So whoever is installing the meter could be plugging the meter into a bolted fault with no OCPD except for the transformer primary?

 

[Buck Parrish]

So whoever is installing the meter could be plugging the meter into a bolted fault with no OCPD except for the transformer primary?

That's right..

 

[Buck Parrish]

So what is the concensous? A couple of you said no it is not allowed some said yes or maybe. 511 seems kind of Vague. Is romex allowed in this building?

 

[Joethemechanic]

When PECO switched over to smart meters, they subbed out to some company. The sub hired guys whose last job was at like Walmart or Taco Bell and sent them to a week of training and then sent them out to change meters. Those guys didn't even know what arc flash was. It didn't end well. They broke a lot of meter sockets and burned a few homes. Then PECO sent their own crews out to pull all the meters again, inspect, and reinstall.

I hope this POCO doesn't send out guys like that to install meters

 

[rc/retired]

So what is the concensous? A couple of you said no it is not allowed some said yes or maybe. 511 seems kind of Vague. Is romex allowed in this building?

I vote no based on your description in post #8. Not only that, how is the NM-B cable going to be protected?

Ron

 

[Joethemechanic]

I'd vote no just because of the sloppy workmanship, They don't even have the exposed parts protected from damage. My God they could have at least used BX

 

[kwired]

So whoever is installing the meter could be plugging the meter into a bolted fault with no OCPD except for the transformer primary?

Landing the GEC in the meter base won't normally make any difference for that.

 

[rambojoe]

There are alot of code violations and hazardous conditions...do i see flying conductors straight into the buss? A better picture would be great.
I missed what your role is there- could you clarify? Set a meter, got it. Dont.

 

[AC\DC]

That scary looks like an illegal grow around here

 

[Buck Parrish]

There are alot of code violations and hazardous conditions...do i see flying conductors straight into the buss? A better picture would be great.
I missed what your role is there- could you clarify? Set a meter, got it. Dont.

I thought I was going to bid to wire the whole new building. If I had known he got a couple of non- electricians to try to wire it and only wanted me to install a meter. I would not have even went by there, Lucky I didn't have to drive to far.

 

[hillbilly1]

You're required to get a permit through the health dept if you're installing a new septic system.
But nobody looks at your building structure. Their are no inspectors.
The power company just makes sure you did not put the grounding wire in the meter base. That's it.

That’s the way it was around here for a long time. We finally got enough housing starts that the state required the county to start doing inspections. Until the big box stores moved in, all of our commercial buildings were built like houses. All single phase and Sheetrock ceilings and romex. Even Home Depot had to bring in their own inspectors because we had no inspections.

 

[Joethemechanic]

That’s the way it was around here for a long time. We finally got enough housing starts that the state required the county to start doing inspections. Until the big box stores moved in, all of our commercial buildings were built like houses. All single phase and Sheetrock ceilings and romex. Even Home Depot had to bring in their own inspectors because we had no inspections.

I was in Valdosta a few times as the manufacturer's rep for some large drives in the paper mill. The surrounding area was pretty much like you described. People were all very friendly. I loved it there

 

[Buck Parrish]

So I'm agreeing with Kwired. Simply because the gas draining filling or even cans may be all over the building. This would make the whole building a class 1 division 2. Am I right?

 

[Buck Parrish]

I almost want to move there. Sounds interesting. No building permits at all?

I thought some places in PA were like this. As most of our Amish population originated in PA.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Landing the GEC in the meter base won't normally make any difference for that.

If the extent of the poco's inspection is limited to the meter base and grounding, how do you know what's on the other side of the wall? Hopefully it's an open main breaker, but it could be a bolted Line, neutral, line fault, or anything in-between. I don't want to be the guy closing an unknown circuit installed by God only knows who

 

[Joethemechanic]

I thought some places in PA were like this. As most of our Amish population originated in PA.

When I was a kid, there were areas that may have had codes, but there was no enforcement. I remember my grandfather putting up a 40 x 60 barn at our place in Tioga County. He poured a foundation, there was a delivery from a lumber company, and one day all kinds of relatives showed up, and by nightfall we had a barn. There were no permits or inspections. But that was like 1970ish.

Now I don't know of any area of Pa where it's like that.

BTW that barn is still standing and looks to be in good shape