Running triplex under utility primary

Status
Not open for further replies.
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Occupation
Electrician
I have a situation where I need to run a set of aerial 120/240 service conductors (typical triplex) under a POCO 4.8kw primary line. The line is on private property. The Poco has an easement for the lines. I read the easement and it is general and does not say anything about clearances or not crossing or running underneath their lines. I am getting pushback from the power company saying I can't run under their lines. Can anyone think of any restrictions, perhaps in the NESC that would cover this? Are there any clearances between the primary and secondary? I suppose there could be something in their tariff ( this is New York state) or the public service law that expands on the rights granted in the easement. But I am pushing back and essentially telling them they've got to cite me some law saying I can't do it or I'm going to do it.
 
I'd imagine you would get some induced voltage on the lower cable depending on the strength of the EMF of the overhead line. I'll have a look into that.
 
I did a bunch of searching, and I found clearances above ground (of course). I did find vertical separation for joint pole users, but my interpretation is that doesn't apply if the other conductors are not attached to the pole.
 
Not sure of the problem, POCO regularly have triplex run from a transformer and carried sometimes 2 or 3 poles length paralleling their primaries or secondaries. Even seen them transecting underneath. Are these private lines or the service drop lines? Perhaps its an ownership issue, the service drop triplex is usually "owned" by POCO, vs a Customer "owned" triple, not sure.

I believe their approach boundary on these lines is10ft, would your lines be outside of that range?
 
Fred B said:
Not sure of the problem, POCO regularly have triplex run from a transformer and carried sometimes 2 or 3 poles length paralleling their primaries or secondaries. Even seen them transecting underneath. Are these private lines or the service drop lines? Perhaps its an ownership issue, the service drop triplex is usually "owned" by POCO, vs a Customer "owned" triple, not sure.

I believe their approach boundary on these lines is10ft, would your lines be outside of that range?
Click to expand...
This would be customer owned triplex, not a utility service drop. I'm just calling BS on their ability to tell me I can't cross this 30-ft corridor that their line is in ON MY CLIENT'S PROPERTY. Yes they have an easement, but it says nothing about not entering that corridor the rep is talking about. The closest thing it says is power company shall have a right to "maintain" their lines. So unless there's some law or case law that has interpreted "maintain" into allowing the power company to define clearances they need/want I don't see that being an issue. I'll put a 15 foot high pink statue of an elephant 2 ft from their Pole, and on the other side the world record sized rubber band ball and they shouldn't be able to do a thing about it.
 
How about this…
Who owns the poles, wires, etc?
POCO does.


We do not allow consumer equipment on our poles either.
 
I don't believe they own the air space all the way to the ground. What about above?

The lowest wires on just about every span of wire are grounded, so minimal risk there.
 
jaggedben said:
So...
Why did you even ask them?
Click to expand...
Haha......we have 2 POCOs around here, and in national grids territory, I put in PV systems all the time where we install a new meter pedestal, blank off the old meter pedestal on the house, (using my typical 230.40 ex#3 approach for ground mounts) and never ask or involve the power company ( except for the DG application of course, but in the end the the guy comes with a net meter and just asks where to put it). This one is in NYSEG territory and they are a bit more anal than grid. I still don't mind a little scolding if that's what it takes to just get things done, but in this case there are three meters on three different buildings that we need to consolidate to one to interconnect this PV system. I was tempted to just do it, toss the other two no longer needed meters in the bushes and play dumb, but that is a little too cowboy for even me 😉
 
LarryFine said:
I don't believe they own the air space all the way to the ground. What about above?

The lowest wires on just about every span of wire are grounded, so minimal risk there.
Click to expand...
Yeah he keeps talking about the danger of a primary falling on a secondary, but a little critical thinking.... I mean there are messenger supported communication lines and secondaries run almost everywhere under primaries so I don't buy that argument.
 
Around here I "think" there is law that prohibits anything not PoCo owned within 10' of primary. This is how they have the authority to cut trees back to 10' radius.

Mark
 
busman said:
Around here I "think" there is law that prohibits anything not PoCo owned within 10' of primary. This is how they have the authority to cut trees back to 10' radius.

Mark
Click to expand...
The easement does specify the POCO has the right to trim within 10 feet, but does not have any language restricting anything such as other cables from entering that zone. Maybe there is something in the tariff or NYS law, I told them if there is I want to see it.
 
Didn't we talk about something like this the other day?

Secondaries are run below the primaries all the time and I can't see that it matters if it is triplex or open lines on a rack. Not sure what the clearance is as in the other topic, but I would assume something like 20 feet below primary.

But what I'm seeing here is not that at all. The poles belong to the utility and they don't want you running your stuff on them.

-Hal
 
Many easements give the utility 'permission' to remove obstacles to their maintenance equipment, such as your elephant and rubber band ball, when necessary for access.
Make sure you provide enough vertical clearance for their aerial trucks to get through.
 
electrofelon said:
I have a situation where I need to run a set of aerial 120/240 service conductors (typical triplex) under a POCO 4.8kw primary line. The line is on private property. The Poco has an easement for the lines. I read the easement and it is general and does not say anything about clearances or not crossing or running underneath their lines. I am getting pushback from the power company saying I can't run under their lines. Can anyone think of any restrictions, perhaps in the NESC that would cover this? Are there any clearances between the primary and secondary? I suppose there could be something in their tariff ( this is New York state) or the public service law that expands on the rights granted in the easement. But I am pushing back and essentially telling them they've got to cite me some law saying I can't do it or I'm going to do it.
Click to expand...
Are you running your spans of triplex on their poles? If that's the case, none (at least in my area) allow that and you'd have to set your own poles unless they give you permission to attach to theirs. They're kind of A holes about it and don't even allow a meter socket on their pole anymore.
 
ammklq143 said:
Are you running your spans of triplex on their poles? If that's the case, none (at least in my area) allow that and you'd have to set your own poles unless they give you permission to attach to theirs. They're kind of A holes about it and don't even allow a meter socket on their pole anymore.
Click to expand...
No, nothing mounted on their poles in this case.....but actually that's an interesting question whether they can even disallow that. I see no wording in the easement that disallows that. I wonder if there is some case law on the issue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top