4 wire to range and dryer

[letgomywago]

If its ungrounded romex you can do a 250.130(C), run a #10 solid green back to any accessible point on the Grounding Electrode Conductor.
As long as 250.130(C) is adopted in your state, I think I read on here some states do not allow it.

I have used this and come off of an AC or minisplit disconnect. Even if they are a 20a unit it's common to just run 10 2 or 6 SE to them and that'll cover the ground size for many circuits and its already outside so makes routing it along the exterior an option if desired.

 

[AC\DC]

If you Can do that then I would just run a new wire. But it’s situational, that is the downfall of NEC not every scenario is the same

 

[letgomywago]

If you Can do that then I would just run a new wire. But it’s situational, that is the downfall of NEC not every scenario is the same

Yes I agree and usually I would upsell the current code not the band aid solution.

 

[shortcircuit2]

4-wire will be safer as now both require GFCI

Yes, there is a body count. Poor plumber in NH was electrocuted. I will say not from incorrect branch circuit wiring, but from untrained appliance delivery personal. But, that is the real world. Most of the replacement appliances are delivered by unqualified people and they are the ones putting the appliance cord on. GFCI will solve this inept problem.

There is a Code compliant arrangement that will allow the 3-wire branch circuits to remain.

 

[Fred B]

Wouldn't it technically be insulated then?

Insulated or not insulated is irrelevent. The real issue is once you have the N/G seperated in the panel you are now either 1 puting neutral current onto the grounding conductor energizing the entire cabinet of the panel or 2 you have a peice of equipment that is ungrounded.
Seems solution could be as some suggested to put on GFCI like is allowed for other ungrounded circuits, insulating the bare neutral to prevent incidental multipoint loose, possibly arcing, contact to the grounded cabinet.
And as others have said If you can run a seperate grounding conductor you can run a new Cable.

The big issue I see often around here is several Generator installation companies are woefully inempt regarding the code and in effort to underbid the next guy will short cut installation related to code requirements and safety concerns. Biggest errors are related to N/G bonding location and existing panel revisions to seperate N/G. Running new 4 wire for the range and dryer can be costly and time consuming for the Gen companies that are trying to knock out as many installs as possible during a week.

Now if the Generator/ATS is indeed not a service equipment with the N/G bonding and overcurrent device on the ATS/Service connection then nothing internally to the panel has or has to change, but that actual scenario is rare for residential gen sets out there that are whole house setups.

 

[kwired]

GFCI not the solution. Any time dryer housing makes contact with washer or some metal object bridges them the GFCI will trip.

You can't put GFCI protection on a grounded conductor that also ends up serving as an equipment grounding conductor, and expect it to operate without nuisance trips.

 

[tortuga]

I had a call where the propane delivery guy thought he 'felt' electricity at the propane tank, the only gas appliances were a big new fancy combo gas /electric range and outside BBQ attachment. I did not see any issues at first but closer inspection there was a 10-50 range receptacle just floating behind the range in broken sheetrock not attached to the wall. Took me about 2 ish hours to do a 250.130(C) and drop a #10 to the waterpipe at the GEC clamp, I would have been there all day running a new 4-wire range circuit.