Homeruns entering panel from trough

RdmanElect

Member
Location
Poughkeepsie NY
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Normally I'd try to squeeze in (2) separate conduits but I'd like to just use (1) 2 1/2" . What do you guys think? I have about 20 12/2 homeruns
1e0f8efbb868cbe0924177a06be40826.jpg


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I really wish Siemens sold a can for thos panels that has no KO's
I had a similar situation and I ran two 2" conduits. In my situation the conduits were less than 24" long and the romex was old 1970's existing.

Also I stripped all the romex in the gutter, the older NM actually has a 'type TW' printed on it so its even legal, but I also stripped the new circuits.
I put a equipment ground bar in the gutter, I salvaged it out of the old panel I removed, which I get mixed opinions on doing that, but it saves having a million bare wires in a service.
You can reverse those panels, since your mains enter on the bottom, you could install that panel reversed, leaving more room at the top.
Cheers.
 
I really wish Siemens sold a can for thos panels that has no KO's
I had a similar situation and I ran two 2" conduits. In my situation the conduits were less than 24" long and the romex was old 1970's existing.

Also I stripped all the romex in the gutter, the older NM actually has a 'type TW' printed on it so its even legal, but I also stripped the new circuits.
I put a equipment ground bar in the gutter, I salvaged it out of the old panel I removed, which I get mixed opinions on doing that, but it saves having a million bare wires in a service.
You can reverse those panels, since your mains enter on the bottom, you could install that panel reversed, leaving more room at the top.
Cheers.
The issue is, when you try to punch in a 2" conduit on the top with all the knockouts, it turns into a mess.all of the knockouts get knocked out unintentionally

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The issue is, when you try to punch in a 2" conduit on the top with all the knockouts, it turns into a mess.all of the knockouts get knocked out unintentionally

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Yeah with the ones I do, I use something to hold them in place, and punch the hole gradually.
Here is one I did recently
service_w_critical_loads_pnl-2.jpg
 
20 is the precise number of 12/2 NM cable you can fit inside a 2-1/2" Schedule 40 PVC nipple less than 24" long, without stripping the sheathing. Southwire says the width is 0.422", and Chapter 9 Table 1 notes say to treat the cable as circular of that diameter. That makes each cable 0.1399 in^2 in cross section, and the allowable 60% fill is 2.817 in^2 per Chapter 9 Table 4. Dividing gives 20.1 cables allowed.

More would fit if you strip the sheath, but then you have the issue that the NM inners are likely not lableled. Plus you'd need to provide something additional to associate the grounded conductor of any 120V circuits with the corresponding ungrounded conductor per 200.4(B). So leaving the sheath on is easier when the fill calculation complies.

Note that the 2026 NEC has revised 312.5(C) to start off "Where a cable wiring method is used". The point of this change is that a cable within a complete (non-sleeve) conduit method does not need to be secured to the cabinet, any more than individual conductors in conduit need to be. However, the panel statement indicated that this was the intent all along, even with the old word of "where cable is used." Edit: the second draft of the 2026 NEC also adds an exception to 312.5(C) to make that even more explicit.

Cheers, Wayne
 
20 is the precise number of 12/2 NM cable you can fit inside a 2-1/2" Schedule 40 PVC nipple less than 24" long, without stripping the sheathing. Southwire says the width is 0.422", and Chapter 9 Table 1 notes say to treat the cable as circular of that diameter. That makes each cable 0.1399 in^2 in cross section, and the allowable 60% fill is 2.817 in^2 per Chapter 9 Table 4. Dividing gives 20.1 cables allowed.

More would fit if you strip the sheath, but then you have the issue that the NM inners are likely not lableled. Plus you'd need to provide something additional to associate the grounded conductor of any 120V circuits with the corresponding ungrounded conductor per 200.4(B). So leaving the sheath on is easier when the fill calculation complies.

Note that the 2026 NEC has revised 312.5(C) to start off "Where a cable wiring method is used". The point of this change is that a cable within a complete (non-sleeve) conduit method does not need to be secured to the cabinet, any more than individual conductors in conduit need to be. However, the panel statement indicated that this was the intent all along, even with the old word of "where cable is used." Edit: the second draft of the 2026 NEC also adds an exception to 312.5(C) to make that even more explicit.

Cheers, Wayne
I'll be stripping the sheathing thank you for your attention to this matter

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I'll be stripping the sheathing thank you for your attention to this matter
You don't want to strip them. The conductors are not labeled so they cannot be run by themselves through the conduit. It looks like you are fine with 20 NMs and 2-1/2" conduit anyway. If you really want to, it's easy enough to just add another conduit to make things easier and for the future.

-Hal
 
Also make sure that your cables are arranged so that you do not nave more than 30 CCC's at any cross section. With 40 CCC's (20*2) derating would force you to come up with a different installation.
Rob are you talking about the panel or the wireway? or both?
 
Rob are you talking about the panel or the wireway? or both?
The wireway, 376.22(B).

Suppose the wireway is 12" long (left right in this case), and all the cable entries on top were in the right-hand half, and the conduit exit on the bottom was on the left-hand half. Then each conductor would cross the cross-section that occurs in the middle of the length, 6" from either end. With (20) 12/2 cables, that would be 40 CCCs, too many to avoid derating.

So the solution is to ensure that you have at most (15) 12/2 cables entering to the right of the conduit, likewise to the left of the conduit. And don't do any unnecessary cable looping within the wireway.

Or use multiple conduits and route the cables appropriately to avoid more than 30 CCCs in each cross section.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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