Electricians, responsibility or engineers

Jraef said:
Well, you shouldn't have to, because the requirement is that the SCCR has to be at or above the AFC, so that's a given...

Hopefully though, your specs clearly spell out that any packaged mechanical equipment and control panels shall have the proper SCCR to meet that. That's something that happens a LOT lately; low bidder packaged equipment suppliers pay no attention to it and use cheap control panels that come with the "courtesy" untested/unlisted 5kA SCCR, then expect the poor EC to come up with a way to connect it... That issue HAS TO BE dealt with in the specifications or procurement requirements.
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Yes it does. Also, we do MEP in house 99.9% of the time so our mechanical guys are fully aware. We get 5K SCCR all the time and have to remind them.
 
AC\DC said:
Bidding a school and they don’t have the AIC rating For equipment, who’s responsibility is that generally
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PE, no doubt. It is not the electrician's responsibility to size the main gear, just install it, generally speaking. Could we size it? of course we can. But again, generally speaking, we are not the 'designers', even in design/build projects, the AHJ, in my experience anyway, needs wet stamp from PE sigs on IFP planset taking responsibility for the design of the system. Electrical Contractors are not also PE's, at least not in California.
 
AC\DC said:
Over in Oregon we can do everything a pe does for are own jobs
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In Washington there is no PE requirement, even for large jobs. City of Seattle has a clause for projects requiring plan review, just saying if the electrical contractor can't submit plans of sufficient clarity and quality for review, than the department can require plans be drawn by an architect or engineer.
 
electrofelon said:
In Washington there is no PE requirement, even for large jobs. City of Seattle has a clause for projects requiring plan review, just saying if the electrical contractor can't submit plans of sufficient clarity and quality for review, than the department can require plans be drawn by an architect or engineer.
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The ec can’t do other ec jobs though right?
 
AC\DC said:
The ec can’t do other ec jobs though right?
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Correct. A licensed EC can plan and document their own projects without a PE signing off on it, but in most places I am aware of**, cannot do so for a project being done by another EC.

This by the way is the way it is in California too. Licensed (C-10) ECs can design their own jobs without a PE, so long as the work involves standard practices outlined in the Code (ie nothing weird). But they cannot act as a PE substitute for someone else’s project. One licensed EC can only supervise several other ECs on a project, IF they are under the auspices of a PE.

** Edit: I’ve only worked on the west coast…: CA, NV, OR, WA, AK and ID.
 
Jraef said:
Correct. A licensed EC can plan and document their own projects without a PE signing off on it, but in most places I am aware of**, cannot do so for a project being done by another EC.
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Similar rules apply in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois.
 
jim dungar said:
Similar rules apply in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois.
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I design-build quite often. Occasionally will do a project that was engineered, and many those I have done were not all that specific on specifically what gear to use just some details that needed to be met such as SCCR/AIC ratings. Things like luminaire's tend to have more definite model numbers specified but may allow equivalent units when they are more of a general purpose type of luminaire.
 
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