Air conditioning condenser whip

GAK said:
I pointed to 356.30(1). Inspector replied that it only applies to luminaries.
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The inspector needs to learn how to read the language in the code book.

356.30(1) applies to all installations where the length of the LFNC does not exceed 6'.
 
Here's the four different scenarios. In (2) the 6' dimension applies to luminaries, (4) the 6' dimension only applies above a ceiling.

356.30 Securing and Supporting.
Type LFNC shall be securely fastened and supported in accordance with one of the following:
(1) Where installed in lengths exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft), the conduit shall be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) on each side of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Where used, cable ties shall be listed for the application and for securing and supporting.
(2) Securing or supporting of the conduit shall not be required where it is fished, installed in lengths not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) at terminals where flexibility is required, or installed in lengths not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft) from a luminaire terminal connection for tap conductors to luminaires permitted in 410.117(C).
(3) Horizontal runs of LFNC supported by openings through framing members at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft) and securely fastened within 300 mm (12 in.) of termination points shall be permitted.
(4) Securing or supporting of LFNC shall not be required where installed in lengths not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft) from the last point where the raceway is securely fastened for connections within an accessible ceiling to a luminaire(s) or other equipment. For the purpose of 356.30, listed liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit fittings shall be permitted as a means of support.
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infinity said:
Here's the four different scenarios. In (2) the 6' dimension applies to luminaries, (4) the 6' dimension only applies above a ceiling.
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This is poorly written section. (1) covers everything and (2) through (4) should be deleted.

The language in (1) says where the LFNC is less than 6', no securing and supporting is required. It goes on to say where the length exceeds 6' it needs to be fastened within 12" of the terminations and every 3'.

(1) covers everything and the rest is totally unneeded.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The inspector needs to learn how to read the language in the code book.

356.30(1) applies to all installations where the length of the LFNC does not exceed 6'.
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Did you mean where it exceeds 6 feet?

For a HVAC whip 6 feet or less I'd say it falls under 'at terminals where flexibility is required' so a strap at 3 feet.
 
tortuga said:
Did you mean where it exceeds 6 feet?

For a HVAC whip 6 feet or less I'd say it falls under 'at terminals where flexibility is required' so a strap at 3 feet.
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For 6' or less, no support is needed no matter what its function. This rule dates back to when LFNC came into the code and could not be used in lengths over 6' and no support was required.

I do not agree that flexibility is required for an HVAC unit....flex is used for convince, not because it is needed.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
For 6' or less, no support is needed no matter what its function.
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I see but does 356.30 item (1) not only apply if the whip 6 feet or more?
The 6 feet or less is the others?
what about terminals where you do think flexibility is required?
 
wwhitney said:
No. 356.30 says in effect "choose one". I choose (1). If the length of the LFNC is under 6', then (1) imposes no securing requirements. So no securing is then required.

Cheers, Wayne
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But Item one says "Where installed in lengths exceeding"
 
tortuga said:
But Item one says "Where installed in lengths exceeding"
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356.30(1) is the only part of 356.30 that imposes an affirmative requirement. All of the other sections remove/relax/clarify that requirement in certain cases. So as 356.30(1) does not impose any requirements on lengths not exceeding 6', 356.30 imposes no requirements in that case.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Item 3 says 'Horizontal runs' so can I pick item 3 if I dont have a Horizontal run?
 
tortuga said:
Item 3 says 'Horizontal runs' so can I pick item 3 if I dont have a Horizontal run?
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Yeah, the "one of the following" wording is weird. I think they really mean "all of the following". But that doesn't change anything for my argument.

Basically, if you have an unsupported length of LFNC that is 6' or under, you can not point to any specific sentence in 356.30 that is violated.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Yeah, the "one of the following" wording is weird. I think they really mean "all of the following". But that doesn't change anything for my argument.

Basically, if you have an unsupported length of LFNC that is 6' or under, you can not point to any specific sentence in 356.30 that is violated.

Cheers, Wayne
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Yeah I never read it very closely it is a bit odd the wording, I think I have been dinged on a condenser whip item based on item (2) installed 'where flexibility is required'.
I never considered debating it was years ago, and its easy to add a strap just below the disco.
Perhaps Dons' argument about flexibility has merit if they don't use flex for the refrigerant lines.
I do get a lot of job specs that contain wording like this however;
Section 26
D) Use flexible electrical conduit between all motors, rotating or reciprocating equipment and pipes and ducts and electrical conduit that are connected to such equipment.
Occupant vibration criteria shall be based on guidelines recommended in ANSI/ASHRAE Standard ....
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And some manufacturers instructions are specific about stuff like ring crimps vs spades and stranded wire.
 
tortuga said:
Did you mean where it exceeds 6 feet?

For a HVAC whip 6 feet or less I'd say it falls under 'at terminals where flexibility is required' so a strap at 3 feet.
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Is flexibility at most HVAC required or just convenient? Add: I see Don sees it as convenient.
 
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