Water line over electrical panel; unfinished basement

S

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Electrical and Automation Designer
Client wants a hose spigot installed. Easiest path for the PEX to take is directly over the venue's breaker panel, perpendicular to the "face" of the panel. Can the water line go over the breaker panel, if it's run through drilled holes in the joists as opposed to surface run across the bottom of the joists? It's an unfinished basement, so there's no way there's 6.5ft above the top of the panel. The "working height" rules have always been slightly confusing to me, mostly because I don't run into them often.

Alternative is to run the water line to the side of the panel and come through the building behind the panel (panel is mounted to plywood, spaced off the wall approx a foot to clear the sewer line running low on the wall. I happened to be at the venue when the plumber was there bidding the job, and I said I'd check on the rules.


Thanks,

SceneryDriver
 
It cannot go over the footprint of the panel. Off to the side is fine as long as it doesn't encroach on the working space.
 
These are the type of questions that baffle many.
It never sounds good to place water lines over a panel, and if there's a way not to, then don't.

Why is directly over the panel the "easiest" way?
 
charlie b said:
True. But it would have to be "structural." It can't just be drywall or any other soft material.
Click to expand...
Kinda interesting.
So then just nail in some cleats inset and install a piece of 3/4ply between joists so that ply shields panel. Done.
Then if drywall ceiling ever goes in there's no PEX hanging down.

Me myself, I would cover (wrap) the ply with 5mil poly (trim off excess after install, etc), and also place some pipe wrap on the pex there to prevent sweating.
 
dkidd said:
I think that is a judgement call. There is no definition of structural.
Click to expand...
In building standards, structural means the elements that form the structure (footings, beams, load bearing walls, etc). In some cases, sheathing the outside walls of home framing can be a structural component due to locale wind conditions, in other locales such structural need is not required, and, if the local code does not call for such sheathing for structural reasons, then it's use is not structural in nature.

Maybe a better way is to say, "use a material that can be used for structural purposes". Plywood often times is, drywall or foam board is never.
 
FionaZuppa said:
These are the type of questions that baffle many.
It never sounds good to place water lines over a panel, and if there's a way not to, then don't.

Why is directly over the panel the "easiest" way?
Click to expand...
Because where my client wants the outdoor faucet is directly behind the footprint of the panel. Easiest solution by far is to loop the PEX around the panel through the joists, and connect to the faucet. 10ft of PEX solves this one in an unambiguous way, and no one has to debate the definition of "structural."


SceneryDriver
 
SceneryDriver said:
Because where my client wants the outdoor faucet is directly behind the footprint of the panel. Easiest solution by far is to loop the PEX around the panel through the joists, and connect to the faucet. 10ft of PEX solves this one in an unambiguous way, and no one has to debate the definition of "structural."


SceneryDriver
Click to expand...
You didn't say over the panel was the endpoint. You only said you needed to run a line over the panel.

So just cleat in some ply. done.

I assume the ply would "seal" up against the joist that's directly over the panel? If so I would just silicone that edge to for a decent seal from water pooling and flowing directly down onto the panel (if not sealed).

PEX itself never really fails unless it's a PSI issue. Not likely gonna happen.
 
charlie b said:
That is acceptable only if the water line is at least 6 feet (or is it 6.5 feet?) higher than the top of the panel.
Click to expand...
True. Good point. That's helpful info for the OP.
Trying to give the man a solution. He'll have to figure out the details to make it compliant.
FWIW: Most not all but most water lines going to a sill cock/ outdoor spigot are run in the joist bays or through the joists.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
True. Good point. That's helpful info for the OP.
Trying to give the man a solution. He'll have to figure out the details to make it compliant.
FWIW: Most not all but most water lines going to a sill cock/ outdoor spigot are run in the joist bays or through the joists.
Click to expand...
Lower the panel. LOL.
More PEX.
Longer hose.
Move the spigot over 3ft.

Is the joist in question the outside wall joist, no pocket between that joist and exit wall?
 
While the code does not actually define structural specifically, I think it can be inferred. I had this conversation through email recently, it seems relevant here so I'm just copy/pasting...

Here's what the 2022 CA Building Code does define:

STRUCTURAL COMPOSITE LUMBER. Structural
member manufactured using wood elements bonded together
with exterior adhesives.

STRUCTURAL FRAME. [DSA-AC] The columns and the
girders, beams and trusses having direct connections to the
columns and all other members that are essential to the stability
of the building or facility as a whole.

STRUCTURAL GLUED-LAMINATED TIMBER.
An engineered, stress-rated product of a timber laminating
plant, composed of assemblies of specially selected and
prepared wood laminations in which the grain of all laminations
is approximately parallel longitudinally and the
laminations are bonded with adhesives.

STRUCTURAL OBSERVATION. The visual observation
of the structural system by a registered design
professional for general conformance to the approved
construction documents.

STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.

Interestingly, the Electrical Code adds to the definition of "structure":

Structure. That which is built or constructed, other than equipment.
(CMP-1)

When the code doesn't specifically define a term we tend to rely on dictionary definitions. Here's what the Merriam-Webster Dictionary says (2a and 2b clearly being the most applicable):

structural
adjective

1: of or relating to the physical makeup of a plant or animal body
structural defects of the heart

2a: of, relating to, or affecting structure
structural stability
b: used in building structures
structural clay
c: involved in or caused by structure especially of the economy
structural unemployment

3: of, relating to, or resulting from the effects of folding or faulting of the earth's crust : tectonic

4: concerned with or relating to structure rather than history or comparison
structural linguistics
 
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