Two pool related questions

J

Jimmy7

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Occupation
Electrician
1. The pool I’m wiring is within 5’ of the single family house with aluminum siding. I assume I would have to bond the siding with a #8. What would be the best way to do this, or what type of lug?

2. On the pool pump it doesn’t state the horsepower. How can I figure it out? The homeowner wants a 240v double pole switch installed for the motor.
 

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Jimmy7 said:
What about a lug, any idea what you would use? I never dealt with bonding aluminum siding
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There is no electrical connection between the individual pieces of aluminum siding, and there is no way to make a 250.8 compliant connection to aluminum siding without popping each section off, and using a lug, screw, and nut.

This picture shows typical aluminum siding with the ungrounded conductor connected to one section and the EGC connected to the next section. There is no continuity between the two sections of siding.
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It's a problem. The pool should be more than 5' from the house. I had a guy who set a hot tub on his patio. The supports that held up the patio roof were metal and there were two of them within 5'. When I questioned him he said "the sauna guy said it was ok"

I bonded the supports with #8 and his wife took a fit said it "looked ugly"
 
Little Bill said:
He just showed you that unless you bonded every single piece of siding, bonding would do no good. IMO, bonding one section would be more dangerous than no bonding. I would not bond it.
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That’s what I was wondering, if it should be bonded or not. How would you address this with the inspector? State I think it’s more of a hazard if I bond in one spot?
 
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Jimmy7 said:
That’s what I was wondering, if it should be bonded or not. How would you address this with the inspector? State I think it’s more of a hazard if I bond in one spot?
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If he uses a little common sense he should see it can't be bonded unless each section is bonded. If I were doing this, I wouldn't bond it, nor mention anything to the inspector unless he brought it up. Then I would explain to him why not to bond.
 
This is insanity. Grounding the siding? What then next? Grounding the car in the driveway? the rebar in the concrete? then don't forget the staples used on Romex in the house. Need to bond all of them together. Don't forget the metal mail box by the driveway. Need #12 THHN run to that. Green. Make sure it's labeled. Land a ground rod at the mailbox too. ???
 
You may want to refer to 680.26(B)(7). I bet a lawyer will. Inspections shouldn’t be an Easter egg hunt.
 
Little Bill said:
How would you suggest to bond the siding?
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A method provided by 250.8(1)-(8)? I think you guys have already come up with the answer but decided it was too labor intense or would be an eyesore. The pool shouldn’t have been constructed within 5’ of fixed metal parts if someone isn’t able to come up with code compliance to 680.26(B)(7). Isn’t it really as simple as that? Just because it is hard to do is not an excuse for non compliance.
 
Greentagger said:
A method provided by 250.8(1)-(8)? I think you guys have already come up with the answer but decided it was too labor intense or would be an eyesore. The pool shouldn’t have been constructed within 5’ of fixed metal parts if someone isn’t able to come up with code compliance to 680.26(B)(7). Isn’t it really as simple as that? Just because it is hard to do is not an excuse for non compliance.
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There is ZERO hazard in not bonding it. I would not require it to be bonded if I was inspecting.
 
I truly respect all the knowledge on this forum but will most respecfully disagree that there is ZERO hazards involved in this installation. Fiirst and foremost it does not meet minimum NEC requirements. I will present 2 situations off the top of my head that will reinforce my interpretation and opinion. Metal siding could be prone to stray voltage or energization from a service drop rubbing against structure or a 2 wire branch circuit poked out for a receptacle, light,etc.And we all know as seasoned electricians, there are many variables to the examples given. To say there is ZERO hazard I would definitely have to disagree. I’ll get my ball and go home now.
 
Greentagger said:
I truly respect all the knowledge on this forum but will most respecfully disagree that there is ZERO hazards involved in this installation. Fiirst and foremost it does not meet minimum NEC requirements. I will present 2 situations off the top of my head that will reinforce my interpretation and opinion. Metal siding could be prone to stray voltage or energization from a service drop rubbing against structure or a 2 wire branch circuit poked out for a receptacle, light,etc.And we all know as seasoned electricians, there are many variables to the examples given. To say there is ZERO hazard I would definitely have to disagree. I’ll get my ball and go home now.
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I have to agree with you on this.
Bonding each piece though will be tricky and ugly. Thing is the stupid pool guy, I can say this, should know 680 up and down and understand the implications of the location to something metallic.

I built a gunite spa about 12-14 years ago in a corner "nook" at the rear of a house. Was not my choice or recommendation. This was a pre-set and approved location by the homeowner.
The homeowner used his own electrician. Wood siding on the house but an aluminum down spout in the corner. The inspector required the electrician to bond the down spout at each break between fittings and the upright. It was ugly.
Not sure, but he may have had to bond the gutter. I believe there was also a window with aluminum cladding nearby that was a point of discussion.

As ugly as it is, better safe than sorry.
 
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