Neutral Bar

Called Schneider Electric today and gave them the panel information. They said no replacement parts are available for this panel, no ground bars, or main bonding jumper. Do you think I could shift enough things around to get at least my neutrals by themselves? The homeowner is not going to pay for a new panel.
 
Jimmy7 said:
Called Schneider Electric today and gave them the panel information. They said no replacement parts are available for this panel, no ground bars, or main bonding jumper. Do you think I could shift enough things around to get at least my neutrals by themselves? The homeowner is not going to pay for a new panel.
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Who did you talk to?

Yes that specific panel and neutral landing pad has been out of production for some 40 years. But, their add-on ground bars and neutral bars (were the branch conductors terminate) haven't changed during the same period.
 
jim dungar said:
Who did you talk to?

Yes that specific panel and neutral landing pad has been out of production for some 40 years. But, their add-on ground bars and neutral bars (were the branch conductors terminate) haven't changed during the same period.
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I chatted with their online support. I sent them a picture of the label from inside the panel. Maybe I’ll try again
 
I would start by properly landing all of the grounded conductors, then deciding how to land the EGCs.

You could combine all of the 14 EGCs into a single 14 pigtail, all of the 12s into a single 12 pigtail, etc.
 
Jimmy7 said:
I chatted with their online support. I sent them a picture of the label from inside the panel. Maybe I’ll try again
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They will tell you the neutral assembly is no longer available. But you want a ground bar.
There is no reason one of their standard ground bars, like a PK15GTACP, will not work. The PKAxxGTA style bar has been used since the QO family was introduced in the late 50s.
 
I called back and spoke with a representative at Schneider and they again stated that they don’t have parts for this panel. I said “You don’t have a ground bars that will fit”, so they put me on hold. The lady came back and said I can use a PK23GTAL ground bar, but then said I need to get a local inspector to okay it. This is panel is a QON40MW200-1 and it’s such a mess that I don’t remember seeing a designated spot for a ground bar. Do I have to drill and tap and scrape the paint to mount this bar?

What about MBJ? Any ideas on what to do with that? What can happen if it is not installed? Does it matter to my ground bar, since the ground from the water pipe is attached to the neutral bar?
 
Jimmy7 said:
Jimmy7 said:
What about MBJ?
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Picture of the panel guts on Ebay show the MBJ installed here. You are going to have to figure out where here is. No reason a regular 10-32 screw wouldn't work.

s-l1600.webp

-Hal
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Jimmy7 said:
What about MBJ? Any ideas on what to do with that? What can happen if it is not installed?
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Take your meter and set it to continuity. Place one lead on the neutral bar, and the other lead on the metal of the cabinet.
Do you show continuity?
yes = MBJ installed
no = MBJ not installed
 
Jimmy7 said:
Do I have to drill and tap and scrape the paint to mount this bar?
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Jimmy7 said:
Do I have to drill and tap and scrape the paint to mount this bar?
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Typically field drilled holes, in standard load centers, may not be able to accommodate the proper number of threads. That is why it is important to use a factory mounting location.

Ground bus bars were not comon until the NEC and UL standards required them in NM cables. But, your panel is a QOxxMWxxxx so it is probably from the late 70's. Because it is a main breaker panel it was not sold with a factory installed ground bus. Likely there are ground bus provisions on both sides.

The number they gave you is a standard 23 hole bar with 1 lug for a larger wire. If you don't need it any PK23GTAxxx will work.
 
I see what appear to be threaded holes in the neutral plate.

I bet you can find a new bare bus with the correct spacing.

You can drill new mounting holes in the back of the new bus.
 
LarryFine said:
I see what appear to be threaded holes in the neutral plate.
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I have a picture of a similar neutral assembly that has a third bus bar, which is located immediately next to the breaker, where there are two holes.
You should be able to mount a PKXxx in that location.

Realistically anything you do to equipment, in the field, requires approval by the AHJ.
 
This is one of those things that I would talk to the customer about what's perfectly safe versus what is code. I don't see any safety issues with using any ground bar that fits comfortably in the panel, even if it isn't necessarily listed for that box. It would be crazy to require a panel swap because you can't source the listed ground bar.
 
You show only the right side of the panel in your picture. On the left side isn't there another neutral bus with what looks like a space to the left of it where another bar could be installed?

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
On the left side isn't there another neutral bus with what looks like a space to the left of it where another bar could be installed?
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That panel was built before split neutrals were used. The main breaker is offset to allow room for the large neutral assembly.
I would expect the ground bus provisions to be about halfway down on both sides
 
jim dungar said:
That panel was built before split neutrals were used. The main breaker is offset to allow room for the large neutral assembly.
I would expect the ground bus provisions to be about halfway down on both sides
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I think I have a picture of it the background of this picture. If this is it, do I need to scrape the paint, or do the screws just tap the holes themselves?
IMG_2748.jpeg
 
Little Bill said:
Take your meter and set it to continuity. Place one lead on the neutral bar, and the other lead on the metal of the cabinet.
Do you show continuity?
yes = MBJ installed
no = MBJ not installed
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I would have to remove all of the ground wires from the ground bar to do this correct? The bare ground from the water pipe comes into the panel through a single metal romex connector, so I would assume I would have to remove that too in order to get a correct reading
 
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