EGC

feel free to take the "isolated home challenge." as soon as the first electrical storm rolls through, or a dry-air mass, or some kind of other ionic disturbace comes through, you're going to turn everything metallic in your entire house into a giant capacitor. all of the ions in the atmosphere will begin giving off static charges to everything metal in your house. those charges will build up, until they build up enough to be able to JUMP to something that actually makes contact to the earth. you know, just like a capacitor. JUST LIKE LIGHTNING, ITSELF.

but this is only going to be recognized if you're not the surprise path that the static build-up finds to jump to the earth. if it's big enough, you won't even get to tell anyone how wrong you were. sounds a bit over-the-top, doesn't it? IT'S NOT. have you ever grabbed a metallic storm door that shocked the hell out of you? the reason it did, is because it's a chunk of metal that is isolated from the earth and our grounded electrical system. i agree, it doesn't feel good. now, imagine your entire electrical system's metallic mass, taking on that same charge, and discharging it all through YOU. that's a lot of electrons, and a lot of amperes.

but you feel free to sit there in your well-grounded home, and pretend like it could never happen to you. i'd just like to ask that you stop putting crazy ideas in other people's heads. grounding is FAR more important than you realize. just because you're living in a well-grounded world, doesn't mean you should stop appreciating it.
Cruise ships and navy ships have isolated electrical systems, so the hull of the ship would be it's earth and they don't have any problems. Hospital operating rooms have a floating electrical system for added safety. There are plants and factories with ungrounded electrical systems.

It's not a crazy idea.
 
Cruise ships and navy ships have isolated electrical systems, so the hull of the ship would be it's earth and they don't have any problems. Hospital operating rooms have a floating electrical system for added safety. There are plants and factories with ungrounded electrical systems.

It's not a crazy idea.
then you won't have a problem isolating your house. prove me wrong.
 
then you won't have a problem isolating your house. prove me wrong.
Most of us have been indoctrinated by the grounding cult. It is hard to give up these beliefs, I know it was hard for me at first. We can help you when/if you are ready. There are many very knowledable people on this site.

I dont think anyone is saying that earthing does absolutely nothing, its just its importance is greatly inflated.
 
In a city with MGN distribution that one random house that doesn't have a grounding electrode isn't a significantly higher risk of having issues than the other places around it. It will still have a grounded conductor ran to it. Neutral to earth voltage will likely be very similar as it would be if there were an electrode installed at that house. There is possibly somewhat higher risk of issues due to lightning. This risk will likely be even higher in places with higher average number of lightning incidents. Then there is the direct strike which results in damages regardless how many electrodes are present unless maybe you actually have a lightning protection system that was designed to lessen such effects. Minimal GES that is required by NEC is not much of a lightning protection system though it will help keep capacitive effects in check as well as help with transients from utility issues as well as non direct lightning events. But so does all the other electrodes in the MGN network to some extent.
 
then you won't have a problem isolating your house. prove me wrong.
I don't have that option where I am living now, but I would have no problem doing it if I were back in my own house. I stand by my statement that the GEC is the least important wire in the electrical system.

Given the choice between losing a grounded conductor or grounding electrode conductor on my house or your house I will pick the GEC every time.
 
I don't have that option where I am living now, but I would have no problem doing it if I were back in my own house. I stand by my statement that the GEC is the least important wire in the electrical system.

Given the choice between losing a grounded conductor or grounding electrode conductor on my house or your house I will pick the GEC every time.
And if utility has a rod say only 100 feet away at the transformer it isn't changing a lot to add one or two more at the house.

If you are in rural area and it is 1500 feet to the transformer, that rod at your service maybe does serve a little more purpose when it comes to transient voltages.
 
I would say one big point of contention is that the NEC isn't about lightning and neither was our discussion on grounding and bonding.
that is just flat wrong. you obviously do not understand what "grounding" is. yes, i'm aware it's a very often mis-used word and all kind of people have absolutely no idea what the difference between "grounding" and "bonding" is. instead of giving you my two-cents worth, i'll simply quote NEC code to prove my point.

and what better, than the very beginning of "GROUNDING AND BONDING?" article 250.4 - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM GROUNDING - "Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will LIMIT THE VOLTAGE IMPOSED BY LIGHTNING, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage liens and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

the very first thing the NEC recognizes grounding is for, is for protecting against lightning. so yes, the NEC is about lightning protection. that is the very essence of 'grounding.'
 
Since we’re here I have a confession to make. I think I’ll sleep better after getting this off my chest.

I go straight to driving grounds rods at a super steep angle and never try verticals first. I also even with the gas powered driver don’t break a sweat before giving up and chopping them off.

This is all in good humor with very much truth behind it;p
 
Since we’re here I have a confession to make. I think I’ll sleep better after getting this off my chest.

I go straight to driving grounds rods at a super steep angle and never try verticals first. I also even with the gas powered driver don’t break a sweat before giving up and chopping them off.

This is all in good humor with very much truth behind it;p
confessing your sins is the first step to repentance. :)
 
Since we’re here I have a confession to make. I think I’ll sleep better after getting this off my chest.

I go straight to driving grounds rods at a super steep angle and never try verticals first. I also even with the gas powered driver don’t break a sweat before giving up and chopping them off.

This is all in good humor with very much truth behind it;p
It's fine they're really not doing much anyway. A 99.99% of cases the service will be grounded fine without them.
 
that is just flat wrong. you obviously do not understand what "grounding" is. yes, i'm aware it's a very often mis-used word and all kind of people have absolutely no idea what the difference between "grounding" and "bonding" is. instead of giving you my two-cents worth, i'll simply quote NEC code to prove my point.

and what better, than the very beginning of "GROUNDING AND BONDING?" article 250.4 - ELECTRICAL SYSTEM GROUNDING - "Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will LIMIT THE VOLTAGE IMPOSED BY LIGHTNING, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage liens and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

the very first thing the NEC recognizes grounding is for, is for protecting against lightning. so yes, the NEC is about lightning protection. that is the very essence of 'grounding.'
Note that section is talking about system grounding not equipment earthing.
 
You don't need it at all. There is such a thing as ungrounded systems and they work fine. There are some advantages to a solidly grounded system, the main one being that one conductor in the electrical system is intentionally connected to ground rather than an unknown conductor connected somewhere.
 
You don't need it at all. There is such a thing as ungrounded systems and they work fine. There are some advantages to a solidly grounded system, the main one being that one conductor in the electrical system is intentionally connected to ground rather than an unknown conductor connected somewhere.
The connection to dirt is not really what makes a system grounded or ungrounded.
In a grounded system the source is intentionally connected to a reference point. On land this point is often dirt/earth, while on a boat it is the hull and in a cell phone it is a specific tracing.

The NEC requires enclosures of ungrounded power systems to still be bonded to dirt and to each other.
 
You don't need it at all. There is such a thing as ungrounded systems and they work fine. There are some advantages to a solidly grounded system, the main one being that one conductor in the electrical system is intentionally connected to ground rather than an unknown conductor connected somewhere.
Isn't that what I said? I mean yeah, I was trying to be a smart ass about it, but basically that was my point.
 
You don't need it at all. There is such a thing as ungrounded systems and they work fine. There are some advantages to a solidly grounded system, the main one being that one conductor in the electrical system is intentionally connected to ground rather than an unknown conductor connected somewhere.
so instead of providing GFCI protection to all of the required protections listed under 210.8, why don't you go and get a 1:1 transformer and begin cleaning up your circuits, and taking away the reference to the earth, on all of your potential electrocution hazards? having them isolated from the earth, would eliminate any shock hazard, right? you don't have to worry when that lightning storm rolls through.

(be sure to update everyone, after the first storm how things went)
 
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