Cut and cap 3/0 feeders in a gutter - re-energize

It’s not a safety difference than if it was landed on a ocpd. Am I miss understanding the principle behind the tap rule.
But is not ocpd for the controler of the current. And sizing the wire is for short circuit?
If so wire is still sized for the short circuit- and now there no current on it
 
AC\DC said:
It’s not a safety difference than if it was landed on a ocpd. Am I miss understanding the principle behind the tap rule.
But is not ocpd for the controler of the current. And sizing the wire is for short circuit?
If so wire is still sized for the short circuit- and now there no current on it
Click to expand...
A tap conductor when properly sized according to one of the tap rules has short circuit and ground fault protection provided by the feeder OCPD. This short conductor from the OP if left in place would still be protected from a short circuit or ground fault by the feeder OCPD. There is no overcurrent protection needed because it is not connected to any load.
 
Ya, that’s what I meant if I did not say it that way.
So I see no need to worry about the capped wire. It was legally fine for the short circuit before and still is as of today
 
wwhitney said:
And where does 240.4 say that?

Cheers, Wayne
Click to expand...
I'm with Infinity on this one.

It doesn't say that anywhere, obviously, but if the wire doesn't supply anything, then the wire has no minimum size, and no required OCP, and its not a tap conductor anymore.

And as far as the caps coming loose in 5 years, how is that different than any other splice or termination?
 
steve66 said:
It doesn't say that anywhere, obviously, but if the wire doesn't supply anything, then the wire has no minimum size, and no required OCP, and its not a tap conductor anymore.
Click to expand...
But 240.4 says "Conductors . . . shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with their ampacities." Overcurrent includes "overload, short circuit, or ground fault." So all conductors require overload protection, even if there is no load.

240.4 imposes a minimum conductor size based on OCPD size(s) and location(s).

Cheers, Wayne
 
steve66 said:
I'm with Infinity on this one.

It doesn't say that anywhere, obviously, but if the wire doesn't supply anything, then the wire has no minimum size, and no required OCP, and its not a tap conductor anymore.

And as far as the caps coming loose in 5 years, how is that different than any other splice or termination?
Click to expand...
That's the argument. The definition of a tap isn't clear enough to say a spare wire connected to the feeder is actually a tap conductor.
 
infinity said:
That's the argument. The definition of a tap isn't clear enough to say a spare wire connected to the feeder is actually a tap conductor.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter if it's a tap conductor or not, if it's a conductor that isn't a flexible cord, flexible cable, or fixture wire, then it needs to comply with the first sentence of 240.4. It doesn't. It's that simple.

Cheers, Wayne
 
infinity said:
Ask for a code reference. Sounds like someone is making up their own rule.

Also if the riser is actually tapped according to you diagram why can't you just remove the tap conductors from the riser.
Click to expand...
We can. we would then need to repair the riser cables at the point that they were stripped to install the Kerney. That would require a mechanical compression butt splice and cold shrink. Not impossible but we were trying to minimize down time on the additional floors.
 
DBill64 said:
And what if the means of capping those wire ends comes loose 5 years in the future? You now have un-capped, live wire ends in some gutter just waiting to be a problem. The NEC is for fire prevention. Leaving energized wire stubs (even if they are capped) in gutter is not conducive to fire prevention IMHO.

My main question is: why even leave them? If the conductors are no longer needed to the point that they are going to be trimmed back to a gutter, then just fully remove them. The device being used to provide the splice isn't being removed, so it's not like leaving that little bit of wire is saving a whole lot of work in the future.
Click to expand...
It was to save time. We will need to compression butt splice and cold shrink the remaining riser to repair the insulation. The hospital is only giving us 2 hours max to do the entire change over.
 
82angelfan said:
We can. we would then need to repair the riser cables at the point that they were stripped to install the Kerney.
Click to expand...
Kerney = split bolt? If so, whatever method was used to insulate the split bolt would seem sufficient to reinsulate the stripped portion of the riser cable without cutting the riser cable.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
And where does 240.4 say that?

Cheers, Wayne
Click to expand...
All cables involved are rated for the 200 amp breaker feeding them. This is not a case of a 200 amp circuit being tapped by #1 wires to feed a 100 amp panels. All cables involve are 3/0 and main breaker is 200 amp. In all honesty, I cannot understand how (3) 200 amp panels are being fed off of (1) 200 main breaker?
 
82angelfan said:
All cables involved are rated for the 200 amp breaker feeding them.
Click to expand...
Then why did your OP say that you have "10' tap rule feeders"?

If all the cables connected to the Kearney are 3/0, then there is no feeder tap, and there's no NEC issue with leaving the Kearney in place with a short stub of wire that is "capped".

Cheers, Wayne
 
82angelfan said:
It was to save time. We will need to compression butt splice and cold shrink the remaining riser to repair the insulation. The hospital is only giving us 2 hours max to do the entire change over.
Click to expand...
I would just go along with the Compliance Officer, and tell the Hospital that you need another hour or two to fully remove, crimp, and re-insulate the riser cable. Far easier to tell a customer you need more time if the Compliance Officer said so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top