1 gang to 2 gang

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JohnConnolly said:
It's the SAME thing!

A moulded plastic box with a couple of screws in it.

Why would you stock a nail on box AND one with screws? I have really big trucks but space is still at a premium.
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I stock old work and new work boxes because I do both types of work sometimes in the same day at the same house even in the same room.
 
I don't think I am offering any new info, but here's my take. Take a screwdriver and pry the existing box away from the stud enough to get a saw blade to cut the nails without the blade getting hung-up between the box and the stud. 1/8 to 1/4" is usually plenty. Cut the box out and use your 2-gang box to trace out the sheetrock for your new hole. I prefer the old-work/"pop-in" boxes, but a box screwd to the stud works too. (Depending on the box used, I have had to put a screw through the back corner into the stud to keep the box from pulling away from the stud.) I have gotten a little better over the years with a sawzall, but a hand saw is still the better way to cut those nails.
 
1g to 2g box, recently caught off guard!

1g to 2g box, recently caught off guard!

I was doing the old typical add a switch to the 1g switch box in the bathroom for the bath fan.

--(Edit)--

Anyways... I found the stud, marked out the new box, cut off the old nails, was cutting the new opening when I felt something that should not be there.......... A PLUMBING VENT! Now, according the the HO's wife, her brother was a 'general contractor' and remodeled their house. It seemed obscure to have anything where that vent turned up... should have been a 'dry' wall.... but low and behold, after some 'surgery' I notched the stud the box was on about 1/2" and got everything in sweet. Wasted an hour on that.

Moral of the story... take the twirly and check the stud bay for other obstacles before making the 1g to 2g change. Had I done that, like I usually do, I would have cut in another switch box somewhere else and let that one be.
 
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ptonsparky said:
If you use a sawzall... remember... "short blade".
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Brings me back to my earlier days. It was at really big banquet hall where I was cutting in a bunch of new recs. I guess I was using maybe 6" Sawzall blades. I couldn't even feel them bumping into the drywall on the other side. When the people at the Old Navy store next door asked me and the forman to step over and take a look at somthing, I realized that I screwed up, big time! To this very day, unless there's some compelling reason not to, I saw box openings in drywall by hand.
 
Fault Finder said:
I need to change an existing 1 gang plastic nail on box to 2 gang in sheetrock. Anyone care to share their method to accomplish this task without having to patch/paint. Is there a way to get out the 1 gang and install a 2 gang without making a mess of the hole or having to use an oversize plate.
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I usually mark the wall with a two gang box and cut out to the new size. Then I either break out the old box and use my dykes to pry out the old nails or I just pry the old box off the stud. Mount new box and move on. Just because you are next to stud does not force you to use a box that mounts directly to the stud.

The SmartBox is great but not the only way to go.
 
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When I was a major rook, I would actually nip the box into pieces with my dykes (very time consuming.) I have since adopted a mash of the techniques described above.. Gotta say Marc, that Lenox folding blade is damn sweet! Beats a sawzall blade with bare hands! Ouch!
 
mdshunk said:
Yes, indeed! Do you want pictures?;) Step vans, brother. Eight single gang, two 2 gang, one 3 gang, and one 4 gang Smart Boxes are on truck stock.
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Careful now dude. If you want to compare work trucks, you had better know who you are dealing with here :)



Make no mistake about it, I AM the master.
 
JohnConnolly said:
Make no mistake about it, I AM the master.
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No problem. I'll let you be the master. I have no problem with that. I'll just be a regular electrician. ;) I must warn you, however, that I carry over 600 unique part numbers on the truck.

"Do you have a..."

"Yes, ma'am. I've got one of those on the truck."

"You're my hero, Mr. Shunk. Let me make you lunch."

:D

(okay, maybe I embellished the script a bit. I'm lucky to get a glass of water)
 
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bikeindy said:
I stock old work and new work boxes because I do both types of work sometimes in the same day at the same house even in the same room.
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I stock old and new work boxes also but don't see the need for Smart Boxes.


It's a box with two drywall screws attached:confused:
25 cents plus two DW screws :). PLUS you can sell the nails you pull out on Ebay.


For a GFCI or dimmer use a deeper 22 CI box for 35 cents.
 
JohnConnolly said:
I stock old and new work boxes also but don't see the need for Smart Boxes.


It's a box with two drywall screws attached:confused:
25 cents plus two DW screws :). PLUS you can sell the nails you pull out on Ebay.


For a GFCI or dimmer use a deeper 22 CI box for 35 cents.
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So, how do you suppose your method squares with the UL? :cool:
 
This will take forever to go thru so I will ask you for a part. If you carry it on your trucks, you can ask me for an item.

Crap...it will STILL probably take forever.

I'll start off easy.

Black GFCI?
 
JohnConnolly said:
I stock old and new work boxes also but don't see the need for Smart Boxes.


It's a box with two drywall screws attached:confused:
25 cents plus two DW screws :). PLUS you can sell the nails you pull out on Ebay.


For a GFCI or dimmer use a deeper 22 CI box for 35 cents.
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John
How long have you been in the industry? Sounds like you are alittle adverse to some changes. Nails/screws through the sidewill of a box will not bring you admiration from UL or any inspectors I know...that is if you are getting inspections on that type of work. :wink:


This industry is demanding of at least 2 things at all times:
hard work
being able to deal with the constant changes


How about a couple of pics of your truck(s)??
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
John
How long have you been in the industry? Sounds like you are alittle adverse to some changes. Nails/screws through the sidewill of a box will not bring you admiration from UL or any inspectors I know...that is if you are getting inspections on that type of work. :wink:


I've never had an inspection fail because I installed screws through a plastic box. Once I even asked an inspector, and he didn't have any problem with it.

No doubt it doesn't comply with the UL rating, but practically speaking, what's the issue?

BTW, I stock Smart boxes, but when I run out, I modify a nail up and use it.
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The box is not listed for the purpose.
There are code restrictions to this in Chapter 3.

As an inspector, one of the hardest lessons I have learned is to treat each and every inspection the same. Code is code and to be an "enforcer" of the code means treating each and every job the same. I inspect for "things" that I do not necessarily agree with in the code, but I do not write it, I inspect for it. What gives me or anyone else the right to change the code? As an inspector we take an oath to enforce the code as it is written, not how we think it should be written. (even though I would like to see some items changed :smile: )

Just because an inspector says it is okay does not necessarily mean it is a code compliant installation. Just ask one of the 1000s here on this site about that.

I do not catch every item on inspections, but I try to be consistant. This way each contractor knows what to expect when it comes time to have his/her inspection.

Do I "sweat the small stuff"?...no, I just try to do my job.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
The box is not listed for the purpose.
There are code restrictions to this in Chapter 3.

Just because an inspector says it is okay does not necessarily mean it is a code compliant installation. Just ask one of the 1000s here on this site about that.

I do not catch every item on inspections, but I try to be consistant. This way each contractor knows what to expect when it comes time to have his/her inspection.

Do I "sweat the small stuff"?...no, I just try to do my job.
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Please note my comment:
"No doubt it doesn't comply with the UL rating, but practically speaking, what's the issue?"

I've been piloried on this forum in the past for stating, what to many contractors, is the obvious: Most, if not all, jobs would fail inspection, if the code was followed to the letter. What's really important, the extremely minor details, or the overall quality and integrity of the work performed?

Whether or not a plastic box has a pre-drilled hole for screw attachment to a stud (right next to the gap where the romex knockout doesn't close the hole) isn't really an issue. Is the box installed at the proper depth?Securely anchored? Properly made up? Not over-filled? Those would seem to be the important issues.

Thanks for being an inspector that "doesn't sweat the small stuff".
 
I have installed many a box with screws into the stud for one particular reason...I don't think I have ever seen a Smartbox. Maybe it is the small area I am in (coastal NC), but there is more than once I would love to have the things I have seen here or on internet. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. Mostly I will install an old-work box, but if the rock won't hold the wings then you grab a box and screw it up, er, in. :grin:
 
Can you quote the violation in chapter 3 regarding using screws to attach a plastic box to a stud?

I did have one inspector YEARS ago who complained. His issue was that the screws were not grounded so I satisfied him by putting a dab of caulk over them.

If I were an anal retentive inspector I could shut down almost any project with code interpetations.

Here is one of my !6' box trucks.

DSC01001.jpg
 
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