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10/2 copper clad aluminum

Birken Vogt

Senior Member
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
The other manufacturers are, so far, refusing to have their wirenuts tested and listed for use with CCA. It is my understanding from the CopperWeld people, that they have tested the other existing wirenuts with CCA and they are fine, but the wirenut manufacturers are not interested in listing their products for use with CCA.
Are their own wire nuts expensive? They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they are. If they sold wire nuts competitive with everybody else's, and Wagos are also acceptable, that overcomes most barriers.
 

garbo

Senior Member
I work with my brother in law we’re a small company but we’re growing. We mainly do new construction/custom homes, one of our builders we’ve been with for 4 years now told us we need to lower our prices. They want us to also start using copper clad aluminum in all of their homes. We told them no, and they fired us and started using a bigger company who only uses copper clad aluminum.

I know copper clad aluminum is #10 gauge and I understand you have to pigtail every switch and outlet which already tells me you’re wasting time and labor rather than running copper. But I’m just curious has anyone else used copper clad? And if so is it dangerous? I know in the code book it states it’s acceptable but we only use copper and we’re never changing lol I don’t trust aluminum even if it’s plated in copper.
Glad that you are sticking to your guns. Maybe a year ago I watched a vidio by believe one of the manufacturers of CCA. They stated that the aluminum has copper that is bonded to the aluminum and comprises 10% of the overall material and stated it could be used on devices only rated for copper. Did not mention anything about you have to use approved wire nuts for splices. I always pretwist my conductors then use my heaviest side cutters to tighten wire nuts. This does cut shallow grooves into copper wire but don't think it would penetrate CCA deep enough to expose aluminum material. Problem that I see with 10/2 of anything is required box volume when two or more NM cables are installed. I would not use CCA cable. Stopped lowering prices years ago when a customer asked for it. After I raised my hourly rate one customer would tell me that when I get slow to do a few days of work at my old rate. Told him that I am never slow and the rate is fair. Best thing about CCA is it has no scrape value as at the present time there is no easy way to remove the bonded copper from the aluminum. Heard contractors that use CCA are placing signs on jobs stating that they are only using CCA and scrape yards will not accept it.
 

Roger9

Member
Location
Tampa
Occupation
Electrican
I had a general contractor ask me to lower my price and I said, "I'll see what I can do." I waited a week and said "Sorry, I can't lower my bid".
by the time they were trimming the job out, they were begging me to bid their next job. Cheap and custom do not go together.

Here's an exercise for you, except this is 3/4":

View attachment 2570930 View attachment 2570931
That’s impressive brother. Im decent at bending pipe could use some practice tho
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Here's an exercise for you, except this is 3/4":

View attachment 2570930 View attachment 2570931
NICE
Legal or not, I would have been tempted to shoot the person who thought I should pull wire thru that!!

It is an art to be appreciated, and I did. Never mastered it myself.
Seen the need for such design and to get point A to B that tight is definitely art.

AFA CCA It has been noted that it is approved to be used with any fastener listed for copper or Al so no need for special connectors. Additional of note has been it seems under testing better than either CU or AL alone under certain conditions. That said I'm not quit ready to jump ship and go CCA.

 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Thank you, guys. I had a season for shaping them that way. If you look carefully, you can see the four conduits pass horizontally in front of the vertical white pipes in the middle of the pic, under the upper floor.

They had to go into the structural column next to the Sunbelt sign on the lift, around the edge of the floor to the sky-walk the skinny helper is standing on, and back out next to him, and up to the sky-walk ceiling.

Dsc00340.jpg


I actually measured, eyeballed, marked, and shaped them with my bender like this. Good grief I was fat!

DSC00332.JPG


The straight ends of the four bent conduits connected to the four horizontal conduits in the pic, and the wide offsets go into the column. They feed programmed track lights that illuminate dichroic glass panels in the sky-walk.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Occupation
EC
One point in regard to your original post. Devices are available which can be wired directly to CCA conductors.
Are most standard devices acceptable or must they be listed for CCA? If so what kind of price jump do those have over standard devices?

The GC likely doesn't realize how cutting cost in one area possibly increases cost in other areas.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Occupation
EC
It doesn't cut deep enough I thought the same as you till I saw it demonstrated. The copper part of it is actually thicker than I thought
Question may be what is actual cost difference per foot of say 10 AWG? Yes you have lesser expensive core but what does it cost to make it that way vs just a solid copper conductor? Evidently that cost is low enough to have overall end result that cost less than solid copper but how much are we talking per average home?

Then factor in specialty items that may need to be used with it. 10 AWG is going to need larger volume boxes - those will cost more, many devices (if they even can accept this conductor) don't accept 10 AWG conductors, or don't accept them very well. I could see proper tightening torque possibly being more critical for this than for solid copper, which can lead to more failures if you don't pay close enough attention to this.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Occupation
EC
Glad that you are sticking to your guns. Maybe a year ago I watched a vidio by believe one of the manufacturers of CCA. They stated that the aluminum has copper that is bonded to the aluminum and comprises 10% of the overall material and stated it could be used on devices only rated for copper. Did not mention anything about you have to use approved wire nuts for splices. I always pretwist my conductors then use my heaviest side cutters to tighten wire nuts. This does cut shallow grooves into copper wire but don't think it would penetrate CCA deep enough to expose aluminum material. Problem that I see with 10/2 of anything is required box volume when two or more NM cables are installed. I would not use CCA cable. Stopped lowering prices years ago when a customer asked for it. After I raised my hourly rate one customer would tell me that when I get slow to do a few days of work at my old rate. Told him that I am never slow and the rate is fair. Best thing about CCA is it has no scrape value as at the present time there is no easy way to remove the bonded copper from the aluminum. Heard contractors that use CCA are placing signs on jobs stating that they are only using CCA and scrape yards will not accept it.
The meth heads that most likely are the ones stealing copper won't pay any attention to the signs
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
NICE

Seen the need for such design and to get point A to B that tight is definitely art.

AFA CCA It has been noted that it is approved to be used with any fastener listed for copper or Al so no need for special connectors. Additional of note has been it seems under testing better than either CU or AL alone under certain conditions. That said I'm not quit ready to jump ship and go CCA.

That does not match up with the information in the UL Guide Information for wire connectors.
The UL Guide Information for Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV) says that for a wire nut to be suitable for use with CCA, it must be marked AL/CU, CU/AL, or CC. Most standard wire nuts are only marked CU. The only wire nut on the market at this time marked CC is the one by CopperWeld.

15 and 20 amp wiring devices marked for use with copper are suitable for use with CCA.

The UL Guide Information for Receptacles and Attachment Plugs (RTRT) says
[/quote]Terminals of 15 and 20 A receptacles not marked "CO/ALR" are for use with copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors only. Terminals marked "CO/ALR" are for use with aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors.[/quote]

The UL Marking Guide for Snap Switches (WJQR) says:
Terminals of 15 A and 20 A switches not marked "CO/ALR" are intended for use with copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors only. Terminals marked "CO/ALR" are for use with aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors.
 
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