10-2 on 50 amp breaker

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iwire said:
Jim I will be surprised if the CH breaker is not rated 75 C.

The pull out on the other hand......

I remember Websparky mentioned he finds the inexpensive HVAC pull outs only rated 60 C during his inspection duties.

You may want to take a look see. :)
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Just did check breaker it is 75 the pullout i will check in morning.If need be i could change disc.lot easier than wire.Its just another mess dumped on me.
 
infinity said:
240.4(d) does not apply to AC units that fall under article 440. Your #10 THHN (75 degrees C=35 amps) may be used for this application however if you used NM cable than it's ampacity is limited to the 60 degree C column of 310.16 which is an ampacity of 30 amps. Therefore if using NM you would need #8-2 NM cable.
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You didn't miss read the NM... Trevor posed an "if you used NM", but not from the OP.
 
I teach the use of 240.4(G) in our area, and a lot of guys are stuck on the 240.4(D), Small Conductors.
I send them to 310.16 and they are almost in shock to see the ampere ratings of 14, 12 and 10 AWG.

I hear: " I would never..." :)

This is so common, that it proves to me that not enough people are reading 310.16 for small conductors, or 240.4(G) for specific applications.
Excluding voltage drop conditions, it is a good way to be competitive for the market today.
 
I'll probably get slaughtered for this but here goes........ What if it was type NM cable and you took it to a j-box and spliced on #8 w/90 degree splices and then into the pullout with the #8? Is that OK? It could be a code compliant way out of a jam. I've done this on occasion and past insp.
 
Yes that could comply with the code.

Edit, I was mistaken, I missed the NM in that post, I assumed we where still working on Jim Ws question.
 
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Jim W in Tampa said:
Doesnt romex stay at 60 degree ?
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I thought you told Ryan we where not talking about NM. :)

Jim in your case you have a 75 C breaker, 75 C conductors but might only have 60 C pullout.

If the pullout is the only part not rated 75 C you could do either one of two things.

1) Replace the pullout....kind of obvious.

2) Splice some 8 AWG onto the 10 AWG using 75 C rated connectors than land the 8 AWG onto the pullout.
 
#27 Today, 12:39 AM
bkludecke
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Big Bear Lake, CA
Posts: 189



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I'll probably get slaughtered for this but here goes........ What if it was type NM cable and you took it to a j-box and spliced on #8 w/90 degree splices and then into the pullout with the #8? Is that OK? It could be a code compliant way out of a jam. I've done this on occasion and past insp.
__________________
Bob on the left coast.

I agree that fixes the terminal problem but does not get romex out of the 60
 
bkludecke said:
I'll probably get slaughtered for this but here goes........ What if it was type NM cable and you took it to a j-box and spliced on #8 w/90 degree splices and then into the pullout with the #8? Is that OK? It could be a code compliant way out of a jam. I've done this on occasion and past insp.
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I don't get what you're proposing.
 
Jim I`d have to assume that you are using 60 amp pull outs,and the wire is in the 75 cat.It doesnt matter what the ocpd size is as long as you have conductors and disc.rated for the ampacity listed on the unit as min. ampacity.I know your inspector and he wants the max bkr. installed.To me as long as the ocpd is between the min. and max. listed on the unit it is code compliant but to shut him up I install the max bkr size.Saves alot of arguments.
 
georgestolz said:
I don't get what you're proposing.
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Ok forget the NM part. You have #10 THHN & you want to load it to 40amps but you only have 75degree terminals. Splice #8s to the #10s w/90degree splices and land the #8s on the terminals, problem solved. How long should the #8s be? 6"? 12"?
 
bkludecke said:
Ok forget the NM part. You have #10 THHN & you want to load it to 40amps but you only have 75degree terminals. Splice #8s to the #10s w/90degree splices and land the #8s on the terminals, problem solved. How long should the #8s be? 6"? 12"?
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Regardless of how this might or might not satisfy the termination provisions in Art. 110, this is certainly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. And people laughed at me for running UF to a WP box. I suppose 90 deg. pigtails in an outlet box to a light fixture meets the "90 deg. supply conductors" requirement? Just feeling grumpy today.

Mark
 
allenwayne said:
Jim I`d have to assume that you are using 60 amp pull outs,and the wire is in the 75 cat.It doesnt matter what the ocpd size is as long as you have conductors and disc.rated for the ampacity listed on the unit as min. ampacity.I know your inspector and he wants the max bkr. installed.To me as long as the ocpd is between the min. and max. listed on the unit it is code compliant but to shut him up I install the max bkr size.Saves alot of arguments.
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You need to know the temperature rating of the terminations to properly size the conductors. If they are all 75 degrees C then #10 THHN will be code compliant. If any termination is 60 degrees C then you'll need #8 THHN. I would check the terminals before I made any assumptions.
 
allenwayne said:
Jim I`d have to assume that you are using 60 amp pull outs,and the wire is in the 75 cat.It doesnt matter what the ocpd size is as long as you have conductors and disc.rated for the ampacity listed on the unit as min. ampacity.I know your inspector and he wants the max bkr. installed.To me as long as the ocpd is between the min. and max. listed on the unit it is code compliant but to shut him up I install the max bkr size.Saves alot of arguments.
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Had another run in with fat boy today,seems someone hit our 2 inch pvc to the underground meter service and broke one of them lifetime plastic straps.No problem will fix this in morning and hand the GC a bill.Whats really funny is the super keeps telling me that c--- is his buddy.LOL $80 Buck will fix it.
 
busman said:
Regardless of how this might or might not satisfy the termination provisions in Art. 110, this is certainly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. And people laughed at me for running UF to a WP box. I suppose 90 deg. pigtails in an outlet box to a light fixture meets the "90 deg. supply conductors" requirement? Just feeling grumpy today.

Mark
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I'm not looking for loopholes but if the alternative is ridiculously expensive then creative thinking is going to get the job dun while staying within the NEC.

Say Hi (HO) to DOC, SNEASY, DOPEY, SLEEPY,GREASY, GRIMEY etc....
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Had another run in with fat boy today,seems someone hit our 2 inch pvc to the underground meter service and broke one of them lifetime plastic straps.No problem will fix this in morning and hand the GC a bill.Whats really funny is the super keeps telling me that c--- is his buddy.LOL $80 Buck will fix it.
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What I find funny is that the other inspectors can`t stand him.You`ll know when he gets mad .He spits and gets bright red.
 
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