10/3, 8/3 and 6/3 Without Ground Romex

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
Don't tell anyone, I still don't bond them when in a PVC box with PVC cover (external operator type covers)

I think they decided cover screws are typically metallic and could still become energized if the yoke became energized. Personally still think isn't that big of an issue in a dwelling when there aren't any grounded surfaces in the vicinity, but I also don't think you can come up with any explanation that a CMP would ever accept to revert this rule.

You and me are going to have issues from now on :mad:🤬




















😛😛😛😛

Seriously, the EGC is your friend.
 

Eddie702

Licensed Electrician
Location
Western Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
I started in 73. I don't recall seeing any romex without a ground around here. Only in old houses a couple of times when they replaced knob and tube. very little

Plenty of undersized grounds in the 1950s & 60s houses
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The metal strap isn't isolated though.
Define what you call isolated. In a plastic box with plastic cover with no mounting screws that pass through cover and attach to yoke, that yoke is isolated from user. Yes it could still become energized but cover must be removed to become a hazard to user.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
Define what you call isolated. In a plastic box with plastic cover with no mounting screws that pass through cover and attach to yoke, that yoke is isolated from user. Yes it could still become energized but cover must be removed to become a hazard to user.

If a hot touched it, its going to go live.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
That was common around here. We (me included) had no idea the neutral needed to be insulated. For us there was no debate on where to land it because the subpanels in condos always had a 3 wire feed typically SEU. Basically if it wasn't a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt circuit ground and neutral were one.
This was only about 10 years ago, I was working on retirement duplexes. We had 4-wire range receptacle and cord, but it was roughed in with a 2-wire + ground 😡

I asked the guy who was paying me "what am I supposed to do with this?"

His answer was "get creative"

I ran the bare through both the neutral and ground lugs, and told him if I saw any more like that, I'm calling the planning department and rat him out.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
This was only about 10 years ago, I was working on retirement duplexes. We had 4-wire range receptacle and cord, but it was roughed in with a 2-wire + ground 😡

I asked the guy who was paying me "what am I supposed to do with this?"

His answer was "get creative"

I ran the bare through both the neutral and ground lugs, and told him if I saw any more like that, I'm calling the planning department and rat him out.

Old habits die hard.
 

DBoone

Senior Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
General Contractor
Don't tell anyone, I still don't bond them when in a PVC box with PVC cover (external operator type covers)

I think they decided cover screws are typically metallic and could still become energized if the yoke became energized. Personally still think isn't that big of an issue in a dwelling when there aren't any grounded surfaces in the vicinity, but I also don't think you can come up with any explanation that a CMP would ever accept to revert this rule.
Don't tell anyone, I still don't bond them when in a PVC box with PVC cover (external operator type covers)

I think they decided cover screws are typically metallic and could still become energized if the yoke became energized. Personally still think isn't that big of an issue in a dwelling when there aren't any grounded surfaces in the vicinity, but I also don't think you can come up with any explanation that a CMP would ever accept to revert this rule.
I don’t think it’s a huge issue either. Full disclosure I do bond switch yokes now, but we never did when I worked for another guy because most of the work was in the county so it wasn’t inspected. He was used to the day when it wasn’t required and just continued that practice up through the years.

However now that I own my own business (home building) whenever we do electrical in-house switch yokes get bonded. I like to leave one long pigtail and hit all the yokes with it.

With that being said, I’ve always had a hard time with the “likely to become energized” wording. I don’t think a switch yoke has a high probability of becoming energized....I don’t think most metallic objects have a high probability of becoming energized.

More like “could possibly become energized”
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
When grounding screws on switches first appeared, we basically made pigtails for them only where GFCIs were required.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
(
Check out this Ebay listing for 5 rolls of 14/2 without ground...

Can this actually be used under current code for residential wireing? Is this actually newly mfg, or just new/old stock? This would appear to be the old 60o C wire.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Never seen such a setup.
1617889570627.png I was talking about a cover like this one. Metal mounting screws for that cover do not attach to the switch yoke, they thread into the plastic box. Some boxes may have brass insert to thread them into, but is still set into the plastic box and isolated well enough it almost impossible for them to be energized.
 

DBoone

Senior Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
General Contractor
Top