12-2 NM cable as switch.

Status
Not open for further replies.
George, at 7200v your man would have "blown apart"
Click to expand...
Maybe....While working live is always very dangerous and almost never permitted for electricians, there are many people who have survived contact with 7200 or higher without major damage. Yes, they are a small minority of those who contact high voltages, but it has happened.
Don
 
Re: George

Re: George

Gmack said:
George, at 7200v your man would have "blown apart"
Click to expand...
Not true. I was watching an "Incredibly Dumb Acts Caught on Tape" (or some such nonsense) a while back, and witnessed a Mexican utility worker come into contact with primary lines. He was knocked out from the shock, concussed from the fall to the ground, but he survived. It was rather unglamourous, really. He simply went rigid, and then fell from the second floor, limp as a noodle. Granted, the high voltage allowed enough current to pass through his body to cook his hands like a hot dog, but he's still intact, nonetheless.

Can you or could you come up with anything more stupid and unsafe.
Click to expand...
How about telling apprentices that 120V is safer to touch than higher voltage circuits?

I can do this for days; check out this link:
On the other hand, voltages above approximately 500 V have a natural defibrillating effect, so sometimes a higher voltage can be safer than a lower voltage, though by no means safe.
Click to expand...
Another nice quote from the link:
It has also been noted that accidental contact with high voltage power lines has not always been fatal because sometimes the victim is thrown clear of the power line by the intensity of the arc that is created and has survived, although with extremely severe injuries.
Click to expand...

Children.
Click to expand...
Heckle all you want, I'm right, and I'll probably live longer than you. :lol:
 
Don

Don

Don, electricians routinely work on energized equipment/gear. All the time.

We cant shut down facilities to add or service installations. Some exceptions.
 
George

George

George.

************************************

Go back and read your OWN post about severe injuries due to higher voltages.

Your circling the drain. Bye.


Edited by Ryan
 
Gmack,with your attitude i am surprised your still alive.You have been lucky.While i will agree that as voltage gets higher the risk of death does go up there still is plenty of danger even at 120.My attitude towards working anything live has changed since becoming a member here,hopefully yours will too.
 
Gmack: Have you ever considered that when you think you are right and the whole rest of the world is wrong that maybe you need to re-revaluate your thinking?

Some of the sharpest people that I know participate here, and they are all saying you are wrong. For the record, I too am saying you are wrong.
 
Re: Don

Re: Don

Gmack said:
Don, electricians routinely work on energized equipment/gear. All the time.

We cant shut down facilities to add or service installations. Some exceptions.
Click to expand...

I thought you where all about safety?

Have you taken any recent electrical safety training?
 
At the last GC's site safety meeting for the place I'm working now they detailed a recent fatality at another project they have going elsewhere.

Dude was on a ladder hooking up some 277 and it turned out to be hot. It wasn't the juice that killed him, it was the fall from the ladder when he got startled by the flash. Pitched backward and landed right on his head. Lots of things were wrong for that fatality to happen, but it happened.

We're getting ready to heat up the gear and meter centers soon, so they wanted people to realize that all that stuff you "knew" was dead may not be soon.
 
Gmack said:
Did I not peg you as a unsafe minded apprentice? A loser. You're fired.
Click to expand...
What a relief! Whew! :lol:

Go back and read your OWN post about severe injuries due to higher voltages.
Click to expand...
I'll go one further, and add OSHA's prediction of Stan's fate, by voltage:

120V = dead
277V = dead
7200V = dead

GFCI's are designed to interrupt a circuit when current exceeds .004 amps to ground. They are designed to prevent death by electrocution. If voltage is the killer, then why will a 120V .003 amp be survived (according to NEMA, NFPA, OSHA, everybody here) but a 120V .012 amp shock may kill you?

Are the volts killing you? Really? Then explain it, senior!
 
Jim W

Jim W

Jim just where are you coming from. I have been talking about apprentices.

A skilled journeyman/master works with live voltage all the time.

Its our business.

Don't --->pretend---< that doing so on 120v is as dangerous as 480v.

Now when it comes to a "HOT" panel room of 480 3 phase or plugging on 400 amp bus switch onto a 800amp "live" busduct Then everybody better FOCUS. EVEN MORE.

Its OVERDRIVE!

Does any electrician wear safety gloves/rubber while working a 120v duplex hot. Do they use a hot stick?

They sure as hell do on high voltage.

I would have expected a PE to explain why 277/480 isnt used in residential/ dwelling units.

After all.

Voltage is not an issue. Just amps. Right?
 
Re: Jim W

Re: Jim W

Gmack said:
A skilled journeyman/master works with live voltage all the time.
Click to expand...

A CARELESS journeyman/master that ignores the rules and doesn't care about his life or family works with live voltages all the time.


Tell me Gmack, can you remove 2nd and 3rd degree burn injuries from you body?
 
Re: Jim W

Re: Jim W

Gmack said:
A skilled journeyman/master works with live voltage all the time.

Its our business.
Click to expand...

No it not supposed to be.

Have you ever taken any electrical safety training?

Have you seen this OSHA Standard?

1910.333(a)(1)

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.


Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.


Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.


Note 3: Work on or near deenergized parts is covered by paragraph (b) of this section.
Click to expand...
 
Gmack,
Don, electricians routinely work on energized equipment/gear. All the time.
We cant shut down facilities to add or service installations.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is routinely done and it is almost always a violation of the OSHA rules. It is done because the workers have not been taught that it is very dangerous and not permitted. There are a few exceptions, the most common of which is troubleshooting.
Don
 
Didn't we recently have a thread that included the statistics for fatal electrocutions by voltage. I seem to remember that 120v was the top dog?

Mark
 
I found it and copied it here. I believe Bryan was the OP.

bphgravity said:
Per the National Traumatic Occupational Fatality reporting system (NTOF), there are roughly an average of 224 worker deaths per year due to electrocution. (average from 1982-1994) This is persons actually working on or near electricity, not joe-homeowner changing a light bulb.

Here's how it breaks down:

Over 600 volt =

601-7199 = 16
7200-7620 = 80
7621-12,999 = 13
13,000-13,800 = 18
>20,000 = 21

Under 600 volt =

120 v = 26
240 v = 15
277 v = 12
480 v = 16
600 v = 6

Remeber that these are just averages per year.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top