#12 only?

[growler]

A lot of the stuff in this thread is insulating to electricians.

Darn spell check. :roll:

OK I fixed it.

You can say what you want but the use of #14 has been associated with dementia.

I read that in one of the tabloids ( next to the Big Foot article ) so you know it has to be true.

 

[danickstr]

I see a lot of homes where remodels have occurred, where an electrician will change the breaker from 20 to 15 to add some 3-way wiring with multi-location dimming on all gangs, for example and use 14 to make is easier to wire up the box. Crammed behind dimmers 12 ga is a pain, unless you use the metal boxes with the mud ring that drops a 3 gang down to two, or 4 to 3, etc. Especially when the last sparky used the switch box as a j-box for other circuits.

Even if there are no dimmers in the bid, there may be later. dimming saves a lot of energy, and can increase bulb life 5 times. there aren't that many loads in ceiling lighting where 20 amps is necessary. That would usually cover an entire house, which I would never do, since it means if the circuit goes, there are no lights anywhere.

 

[LarryFine]

ps...here in my area 12/2 nm is much cheaper than 14/2 nm

Wanna make a swap???

 

[LarryFine]

Look around your house and try to come up with a good reason to use 12! Add up the load a any given time. If your pluging in electric portible heaters you may have a case but that's about it.

Well, vacuum cleaners use a bit of power, and people often turn on all the lights when they vacuum, so there are two overlapping reasons for separate circuits.

If I had an average-sized 3-bedroom house to wire, I'd prefer one 20a circuit for all the receptacles, including the hallway, where I'd probably opt for two 15a circuits for them.

The ceiling lighting can usually all go on a single 15a circuit, including baths, halls, closets, etc. Plus, your lights don't do the flicker when you turn on a TV or the vacuum.

 

[readydave8]

Plus, your lights don't do the flicker when you turn on a TV or the vacuum.

lite flicker is bad, the homeowner may not know if its fairly normal or if his house is fixin' to burn

 

[electricmanscott]

If there was even a remotely legitimate reason to require the use of # 12 and no #14 it would be required. The wire manufacturers and the copper industry would see to it and the CMPs would fold like a cheap tent, as usual. There isn't so it isn't. It's that simple. To each their own.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I use 12 where required. Other than that 14 is what I use.

I just install less outlets on these circuits. Easier to work with, easier to change my mind if I need to add a wire to an outlet (cubes). Maybe a few extra breakers but I have never had a complaint.

As stated before it is a choice.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

#14 on lighting circuits. If for no other reason - box fill!!! Especially milti gang boxes. So much easier to work. In residential, have never come even close to overloading #14.

Rcpts - always #12.

RC

 

[jzadroga]

I think more depends on how lightly or heavy you load the circuits. I mean you could have a code minimum house with all 20amp circuits trip more often than a more than code minimum house with lightly loaded 15amp circuits.

 

[CopperTone]

for resi - #12 only where required. You would be wasting your money if you did it any other way. (Unless it was in an architects spec to use #12 everywhere which I have seen before)

It is not a better way to use #12 everywhere it only will enable you to load up the circuit with more receptacles or lights. And it would just cost you more in wire and possibly larger boxes considering box fill.

Unless spec'd it is a waste.

 

[Mgraw]

I don't consider using #12 a waste. I always use deep boxes. I always put 6 receptacles in a bedroom. I always put each bedroom on its own circuit. I always put a minimum of 5-20 amp circuits in a kitchen. The point being I never wire a house to minimum code requirement. Do I make as much money as I could? NO But I get repeat business and I am happy with what I make.

 

[hillbilly1]

One of the drawbacks of a 15 amp lighting circuit is one medium size chandolier will eat up 12 amps of it. I have had to run more circuits in high end houses because they were wired with #14, and when the homeowner had the chandolier, and the hall light on the breaker would trip after a while. (By the way I didn't originally wire it, I would have laid out the circuits better)

 

[LarryFine]

It's that simple. To each their own.

I absolutely agree. When I use 12 where 14 would work, it's purely a design choice.

 

[LarryFine]

One of the drawbacks of a 15 amp lighting circuit is one medium size chandolier will eat up 12 amps of it.

That's a load that should have obviously been given its own circuit.

 

[peter d]

ps...here in my area 12/2 nm is much cheaper than 14/2 nm

I find that impossible to believe. I suppose it's possible because of supply and demand, but still.

 

[quinn77]

Heres the deal...i am not an engineer...yet...i will follow instructions... I will do my job as instructed by my engineer...who designed and installed the first vfd in our country...i as a master electrician will install work per state law... If you do not want to cohere to your state laws...you are just as much of a liablity as a terrorist...period. Who are we to judge the law? Until it becomes tyrrany... It is our job to follow instructions. In my opinion...as a service electrician...you installers who use side cutters to strip wire are more of a liability. Ive seen families loose everything because of you....if you want to pick bones let's go...i'm ready

 

[LarryFine]

I'd believe you if you merely tell us the price of each, and where it's from. The orange and blue stores are the cheapest sources for NM for me, and #14 is definitely cheaper than #12.

 

[peter d]

If that's the case, then it's the exception and not the rule. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that #12 cable contains more copper than #14 cable. More copper is more expensive (have you seen copper prices rising lately?)

So forgive me if I find that cable that contains less copper is more expensive just a bit hard to believe.

 

[peter d]

My opinion is that a blanket policy of using all #12 in a dwelling unit is a waste. I'd much rather have well thought out circuitry using #12 and #14 as required then one wired with a "dummy" plan of using all #12 so mistakes don't get made. I've been in a large share of tract homes wired my marginally skilled laborers and they can figure out how to wire a home by code. Why can't the skilled electricians of the world do the same?

 

[jumper]

Why the attitude? :-? No one is calling you a liar, we are just perplexed on the pricing difference of 14/2 NM being cheaper than 12/2 NM.

If 12/2 NM is mandatory in your area, that could explain it. Regional pricing can vary a lot.