14-3 romex in 1/2 " emt ????

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Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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I have an area where I am useing romex in a house.
They have a breeze way with fancy wood that goes up to an eve.
This is where they want lights.

The carpenter has already installed the wood except for the top where he wants me to put the wires. I wont have any thing to protect the wire except the carpenter telling me to put the wire in the middle where there will be a little gap. He will put the nails on the outside of the last and top piece of wood that will ajoin the eve to have a 4" flat piece on top.

From the house I am obviously going to use romex. I thought I could sleeve the romex up at the eve. It will be in lenths about 8 to ten feet before it gets to a light box, total of about 40 feet.

Am I allowed to install 14-3 romex in 1/2" emt ?
 
NM-B cable is not rated to be outside. From your question, it seems to me that you are proposing to put 14/3 NM-B in a conduit that is located outside. This would be a damp or wet location.

If you were to use UF cable in a conduit, it would be different.

Chapter 9 Table 1 note 9 says a multiwire cable is to be treated like a single conductor for the purposes of conduit fill (53%).
14/3wg UF = (approx.) 0.347 in diameter (Squared) = 0.1204 X 0.7854 = 0.0945
you can go up to 0.161 with 1/2 EMT as per Table 4

Answer: Yes 14/3 UF :smile:
 
can you drop the romex out of the eave into a 5-hole box or an FS box? then connect the EMT to that box and continue w/ thwn.
 
brantmacga said:
can you drop the romex out of the eave into a 5-hole box or an FS box? then connect the EMT to that box and continue w/ thwn.
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Thanks, I may have to, I was trying to avoid that.




Thanks wbalsam1
I was sitting here with the book opened to chapter 9 when you posted. That 14-3 UF is flat and wider than 1/2 emt . I would never get it in their. I'm going to take an other look at it to make sure.
 
stew said:
Just remember that the floating emt must be bonded. pvc may be a better option.
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Thanks , I figured I would have to use a metal box on one end and a connector with bushing on the other.
I was worried about the nails. I don't think pvc would be a good option.
 
buckofdurham said:
That 14-3 UF is flat and wider than 1/2 emt . I would never get it in their. I'm going to take an other look at it to make sure.
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Yeh that UF will be a nightmare trying to pull through the EMT.




stew said:
Just remember that the floating emt must be bonded. pvc may be a better option.
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I was thinking a metal FS box.
 
A breezeway, often an open roofed porch, that is open to radical temperture differences (exposed to wind and driving rain and other weather conditions) having an EMT raceway (see def. of raceway) enclosing NM-B (not permitted in damp -or wet - locations), in my opinion, is considered outside.
Some breezeways are totally enclosed, including sides that have openable windows, but typically the eaves are outside of the building envelope and as such, are exposed to the weather. :smile:
 
petersonra said:
why would a breezeway be considered a damp location? its far better protected than a covered porch.
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If I am understanding the OP, the breezeway is going to be enclosed. This reminds me of a soffit in a house, which generally has NM cable installed within.

If he is sleeving the NM for protection, the EMT is not required to be bonded. 250.86Ex2
 
wbalsam1 said:
A breezeway, often an open roofed porch, that is open to radical temperture differences (exposed to wind and driving rain and other weather conditions) having an EMT raceway (see def. of raceway) enclosing NM-B (not permitted in damp -or wet - locations), in my opinion, is considered outside.
Some breezeways are totally enclosed, including sides that have openable windows, but typically the eaves are outside of the building envelope and as such, are exposed to the weather. :smile:
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The concept of nm not being allowed in this situation is a bit odd to me. I have been under houses where the crawl spaces are dripping wet with NM cable everywhere. Installing a piece of nm in conduit and sealing both ends of the raceway as referred to in 300.7(A) would appear to be sufficient to keep NM dry.

However, I don't know that the NEC gives us that leeway.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The concept of nm not being allowed in this situation is a bit odd to me. I have been under houses where the crawl spaces are dripping wet with NM cable everywhere. Installing a piece of nm in conduit and sealing both ends of the raceway as referred to in 300.7(A) would appear to be sufficient to keep NM dry.

However, I don't know that the NEC gives us that leeway.
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I agree that each "breezeway" should be evaluated on its own merits. Some will be enclosed and determined by the AHJ to be a dry location. In those situations, I agree that an EMT section (permitted to be non-bonded as pointed out by Pierre) and perhaps sealed at both ends, with NM-B cable within would be permitted.

The definition of Location, Damp in Article 100 indicates that some basements are considered "damp". In these examples, "romex" would not be permitted.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I hope your not thinking emt will stop a nail gun.
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We just had this discussion the other night at our NCAEC meeting and most said the nails would deflect but I agree this would not be a legal protection for the cable. I would not think the wall of the conduit is thick enough.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Why then are RMC, IMC, RNC & EMT exempt from nail plates?
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Come on, Schedule 80 PVC will stop a screw or nail gun it's tracks. ;) :grin:














Well at least that seems to be the NECs opinion. :-?
 
iwire said:
Come on, Schedule 80 PVC will stop a screw or nail gun it's tracks. ;) :grin:


Well at least that seems to be the NECs opinion. :-?
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I know... pretty scary stuff. Carpenters just pre-drill when they hit resistance anyways...:roll:
 
250.86 ex.2

250.86 ex.2

If he is sleeving the NM for protection, the EMT is not required to be bonded. 250.86Ex2[/QUOTE]

Man that's great. I never knew that.

Pierre, I remember a picture you posted a while back. Where a job you we're inspecting some one had all kinds of metal contraptions to protect the wire. When all they had to do was sleeve it in emt.

I'll still use the connectors and bushings, of course.

I'm going to have to copy that section in the code book because I don't know if the inspectors will know, either.

The only thing is the code exception, says " short sections" of metal raceways are not required to be connected to the equipment ground if used as a race way to protect against physical damage.
I might go as far as 8' does that sound like a short section to y'all.
 
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