14 gauge travellers

[speedypetey]

I'm required to follow company rules as a term of employment. Not only inspection agencies develop policies, but pocos, too. Can you think of poco policies you have to follow in order to get a service energized? I can. Policies cover subjects of mutual interest to the parties involved. An underwriter has an interest in cooperating with the parties just like the poco does. A poco not only requires compliance with codes but also with it's specifications. They reserve the right to deny service, just as an underwriter reserves the right to nullify an inspection contract if it's policies are not adhered to.

First a comment. You CANNOT compare a third party inspection agency to a POCO. Apples and oranges.
One makes their own rules. The other enforces someone else's.




On to the subject at hand:

1st of all, I'm not trying to enforce a made up code. It's not a code, it is a term of an agreement between two contracting parties. It's a company policy. The question "If you don't comply" doesn't apply since it's the inspector that tags the circuit.

HOLD IT! I misunderstood. This whole time you have been repeating that this is a condition of employment. That you were bound to this policy.
I see now that YOU are the one putting the tags on????????
I thought you were saying you are requiring the electrician to do so. That makes a BIG difference.
Most of what I stated previously is now almost moot.

I really must say though. What gives your agency the right to alter someone else's work? Yes, I do consider this an alteration.
Is this within the scope of your company's work? What about insurance?
This does NOT seem like a kosher policy IMO.

 

[quogueelectric]

Look and label before dismantling is my MO when doing a service change.

I thought I was the only one. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten a call where a friend electrician burned up all kinds of equipment or got blamed for everything that doesnt work in the house since the service change. I have become less and less tolerant in the last 10 yrs for those that dont thoughroughly mark and document the old panel marking each wire breaker neutral which breakers are on ,off, tripped in the 10 minutes it takes to mark this down. If you do not mark thoroughly on my job you will hear the rath of cow and for years to come you WILL NOT FORGET!!

 

[wbalsam1]

First a comment. You CANNOT compare a third party inspection agency to a POCO. Apples and oranges.
One makes their own rules. The other enforces someone else's.

A corporation is a legal entity that enters into contracts. Power companies and electrical inspection agencies not only individually enter into contracts but actually enter into contracts with one another. Not apples and oranges. Depends on the perspective you opt to view from.

On to the subject at hand:

HOLD IT! I misunderstood. This whole time you have been repeating that this is a condition of employment. That you were bound to this policy.
I see now that YOU are the one putting the tags on????????
I thought you were saying you are requiring the electrician to do so. That makes a BIG difference.
Most of what I stated previously is now almost moot.

Yep! I enter a job, do a rough-wire and observe 14/3 NMB travellers on a circuit otherwise entirely wired in 12/2. I inform the installer that the company has a policy with regard to this practice that requires me to indicate within the panelboard, where this circuit originates, that this method has been used and that prior to issuing a certificate evidencing compliance with the NEC and company policies I must tag this circuit as prescribed in the company policy manual. That such a policy is a company rule based on experience/trade practice.

I really must say though. What gives your agency the right to alter someone else's work? Yes, I do consider this an alteration.
Is this within the scope of your company's work? What about insurance?
This does NOT seem like a kosher policy IMO.

An agency has a right to develop policies. This is granted within the charter establishing such. It can regulate procedures, methods and conduct.
I'm beginning to sense that you think an inspector's job is to simply show up and write a green ticket and walk off. What do you actually think an inspection agency is? Do you really think that a company entering into a contractual obligation with the state within which it is duly formed has no obligation to conduct itself appropriately? How can an organization charged to conduct inspections for public and private safety not be empowered to create policies as a part of a contractual setting?

If the general experience of the corporation is that a potential for over-fusing is heightened by a certain practice why would the practice of developing methods, procedures and conduct NOT BE KOSHER?

 

[speedypetey]

I was hoping I could let this go. Oh well.

An agency has a right to develop policies. This is granted within the charter establishing such. It can regulate procedures, methods and conduct.

Yes, Yes, you have made this point abundantly clear. It is your company's policy. I get it.

I'm beginning to sense that you think an inspector's job is to simply show up and write a green ticket and walk off. What do you actually think an inspection agency is? Do you really think that a company entering into a contractual obligation with the state within which it is duly formed has no obligation to conduct itself appropriately?

Now you are making over dramatic assumptions.
Actually I DO in fact think that is EXACTLY your job. IF you see fit to do so. If you find anything non-compliant you provide a red tag. THAT IS appropriate conduct. It really is a simple concept.

How can an organization charged to conduct inspections for public and private safety not be empowered to create policies as a part of a contractual setting?

Create policies? Fine.
Create codes and requirements? NOT so fine.

If the general experience of the corporation is that a potential for over-fusing is heightened by a certain practice why would the practice of developing methods, procedures and conduct NOT BE KOSHER?

Again, because YOU are altering a job done by another contractor under his application. I am not saying this is a huge thing, but I don't like the fact of someone else in a panel that I just wired and has my name and liability on it.
Would I choose another agency because of this policy? I couldn't really say.
That would depend on the face to face rapport I had with the field guys.

 

[wbalsam1]

Speedypetey, I apologize for the over dramatic assumptions. I'll let it go. :smile:

 

[speedypetey]

Very good. So will I.