#14 switch legs on 20A OCP

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#14 switch legs on 20A OCP

  • is ALLOWED.

    Votes: 17 8.4%

  • is NOT ALLOWED.

    Votes: 186 91.6%
  • Total voters
    203
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Alright - so some of you gent's know - I was out of work for a little while (those two weeks when I was posting like mad...) - anyway I found me-self a new job....

I'm back to 'grunt' status, but at least well paid grunt.... Hey - it's work.... (which I'm glad to have - I have not had been out of a job for more than an hour in nearly two decades... And car/morgage payments, etc... ;))

So on day two I'm getting layed out for a bunch of rooms and "Oh ah... 12/2 up to here, and 14 out to the lights..." ME: "Are you putting that on a 20? Ah you you know thats a code violation - 240.4(D) - right?" :roll: 'oh we been doing it that way forever...' :roll::roll:

Anyway - if I have anything to do with it will be 15A ocp.... Not looking to rock the boat just yet...

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On another note - the reason I could remember the particular code chapter and verse was that I was debating it here in the two weeks I was off.... Now I have a question for all those who agree that >14 = 15A, >12 = 20A, >10 = 30A OCP...

Why is it there are those who feel 28A on #12 NM is OK for Air Conditioning?

IMO - 240.4(G) does not get you out of also considering 240.4(D)
 
ActionDave said:
The very first line of 240.4(D) tells you you can.
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Have you found anything "specifically permitted" in any of the codes listed in 240.4(G) that says '240.4(D) shall not be applicable'?

IMO it is a catch 22... :cool:

After-all we wouldn't put 600w of lighting on #14 on a 20A breaker - but putting 28A on #12 with a 30A breaker is OK? :roll:
 
e57 said:
Why is it there are those who feel 28A on #12 NM is OK for Air Conditioning?

IMO - 240.4(G) does not get you out of also considering 240.4(D)
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You cannot use #12 NM for an AC MCA of 28 amps regardless of the permissions of 240.4(G). At 60 degrees C #12 NM is only good for 25 amps.
 
e57 said:
Why is it there are those who feel 28A on #12 NM is OK for Air Conditioning?

IMO - 240.4(G) does not get you out of also considering 240.4(D)
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I was thinking that the manufacturer has already tested/certified the setup that they put on the label.

I supposed if you were to have the circuit tested/certified, and not able to be changed, it would be ok, but how do you propose to do that?
 
iwire said:
And there is still only 3 yes votes.
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4 now...
790_smiley_picking_a_fight.gif
 
e57 said:
IMO - 240.4(G) does not get you out of also considering 240.4(D)
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I don't see how you could read it that way.

240.4(D) Small Conductors. Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) or (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed that required by (D)(1) through (D)(7)...
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If a conductor falls under one of the applications listed in Table 240.4(G), then it is immediately removed from the small conductor rule, by the small conductor rule's own language. 240.4(D) gave you permission to ignore itself in those specific applications.
 
Once the poll closes, then we can get the results and find out who needs to be ostracized and/or beat with a wet noodle. :grin:
 
George Stolz said:
I don't see how you could read it that way.



If a conductor falls under one of the applications listed in Table 240.4(G), then it is immediately removed from the small conductor rule, by the small conductor rule's own language. 240.4(D) gave you permission to ignore itself in those specific applications.
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I agree with George.
 
I think the wording of the poll stinks ,.. why?? Because it is allowed in many areas of the country.. regardless of the fact that it is in violation of the NEC... and no i did not vote "Allowed"
 
George Stolz said:
Just goes to show, when you guys start these polls you need to check the "display who voted for what" checkbox, and we can hold these guys' feet to the fire. :)
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The Forum Lifetime Membership Card (I'll just start over; pushing buttons on the computer confuses me.)
 
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The MIKE HOLT FORUM LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP CARD is something you guys ought to consider. Send me the low, onetime fee of $199.00, payable in three easy $66.60 installments, and you get all the benefits of membership for along with a patch, a securely mountable wall plaque, and heirloom quality biker jacket, made in another country out of real imitation leather...
 
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