bgreen42977
Member
I have a house where all the home runs back to the panel are in 12 but at the switches and outlets etc. are run in 14.Can this be done?
14 tied to 12 on 20 amp breaker
- Thread starter bgreen42977
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shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
As long as they are on 15A breakers, yes. They should be labled to indicate this as well.
This could have been done for voltage drop.
This could have been done for voltage drop.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
I agree with the previous three answers. But unlike the members who posted those answers, I read the title of this thread. 
No, it is not acceptable to have part of a circuit fed by #14 wire, if the breaker is (as you have told us) a 20 amp breaker.
I will add my own "Welcome to the forum."
No, it is not acceptable to have part of a circuit fed by #14 wire, if the breaker is (as you have told us) a 20 amp breaker.
I will add my own "Welcome to the forum."
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Because it isn't code...
bluesmoke...oops
Senior Member
- Location
- Tri-Cities, Washington
Where are you getting that from? You are saying you can't splice a larger conductor onto a smaller one with a circuit that protects the smallest conductor used?
jetlag
Senior Member
- Location
- Eatonton, Georgia
The ahj has probably had some bad experience with people wanting 20 amp recepts on #12 but they want to use #14 on the light circuits and it is easy to tie the switch into a recept below it , so they tell the ahj all is 15 amp breakers , soon as he leaves the 20 's go back in . Maybe he got wise to that , or maybe he just thinks it is a violation even with the 15 amp breakers :grin:
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
His choice of wording was a bit unclear, perhaps. But I think his intended meaning was, "Because it isn't (in violation of any) code (requirement)," and not, "Because it isn't (in compliance with) code." In other words, I believe he agrees with you.
Ditto on the welcome.I agree with the previous three answers. But unlike the members who posted those answers, I read the title of this thread.
No, it is not acceptable to have part of a circuit fed by #14 wire, if the breaker is (as you have told us) a 20 amp breaker.
I will add my own "Welcome to the forum."
Knowing the consensus (with emphasis), the wording of the Code regarding branch circuit taps leaves me wondering. Let's start at 210.19(A)(1), (2) and (4). If we have a 16A continuous or 20A non-continuous branch circuit load, #14 Cu meets the requirement using Table 310.16. So we go to 210.20(A) and put the circuit on a 20A breaker, then we go to 210.20(B) which sends us to 240.4.
Going through the requirements of 240.4, everything is fine until we get to 240.4(D)(3) which limits #14 copper to a 15A OCPD... unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) or (G). For this we'll say (G) doesn't apply, so the only possibility in relief of 240.4(D)(3) is 240.4(E)(3) "240.21, Location in Circuit".
We go to 240.21 where the general applies along with subsection (A) which states, "Branch-circuit tap conductors meeting the requirements specified in 210.19 shall be permitted to have overcurrent protection as specified in 210.20." So back to 210.19 we go... but that is where we started and determined #14 copper met it's requirements only this time we are dubbing it as a tap conductor because of 240.21(A). This is where the wording gets squirrelly. So where does it say this #14 tap conductor is not permitted in 210.19?
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jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Ditto on the welcome.
Knowing the consensus (with emphasis), the wording of the Code regarding branch circuit taps leaves me wondering. Let's start at 210.19(A)(1), (2) and (4). If we have a 16A continuous or 20A non-continuous branch circuit load, #14 Cu meets the requirement using Table 310.16. So we go to 210.20(A) and put the circuit on a 20A breaker, then we go to 210.20(B) which sends us to 240.4.
Going through the requirements of 240.4, everything is fine until we get to 240.4(D)(3) which limits #14 copper to a 15A OCPD... unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) or (G). For this we'll say (G) doesn't apply, so the only possibility in relief of 240.4(D)(3) is 240.4(E)(3) "240.21, Location in Circuit".
We go to 240.21 where the general applies along with subsection (A) which states, "Branch-circuit tap conductors meeting the requirements specified in 210.19 shall be permitted to have overcurrent protection as specified in 210.20." So back to 210.19 we go... but that is where we started and determined #14 copper met it's requirements only this time we are dubbing it as a tap conductor because of 240.21(A). This is where the wording gets squirrelly. So where does it say this #14 tap conductor is not permitted in 210.19?
Stirring the pot. Troublemaker.:grin::grin::grin: I ain't touching this one.
Aw' c'mon... the pot may be hot, but that's why they make pot holdersStirring the pot. Troublemaker.:grin::grin::grin: I ain't touching this one.
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Shoulda specified... Just because an inspector says you can't do it doesn't mean it's code...
I wasn't very clear. You can certainly add 12 ga to a 15 amp protected circuit
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Yes exactly... thanks
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Nope. We've been down this road a gazillion times.
jetlag
Senior Member
- Location
- Eatonton, Georgia
doesnt a tap conductor have to have a breaker at the end of the run to limit the load. ?:-?
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