20 amp circuits

[FionaZuppa]

clarity could easily be obtained if art 100 changes definition for "Branch Circuit, Individual", that definition should say "... can supply ...". this would eliminate the use of a duplex, etc. a duplex on the end of such BC could/may supply more than one load, thus the duplex is not allowed. hence, fully restricted to a single receptacle for that specific type of BC.

the definition as-is simply says that only one load should be attached to that BC. heck, a 20A BC w/ 4 gang (8 receptacles) where just a fridge was plugged in seems to still fit the definition, up until the point two loads are attached, then you have violation.

i am sure i not the 1st to say, nec needs some fixin.

 

[mwm1752]

Can you point to any NEC language that says a cord-and-plug connected load on an individual branch circuit can't be connected via a duplex receptacle?

Sure you could plug something else into the duplex receptacle, but that's just a "what if". If you plug in only one piece of utilization equipment, you still have an individual branch circuit, to my understanding.

Cheers, Wayne

First I was responding to a hypothetical situation in which an individual branch circuit was required by the manufacturer. Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment. A duplex does not limit the use to one piece of equipment which could be considered a violation of individual branch circuit. Not saying it doesn't happen every day with a washing machine. Just something to consider.

 

[mwm1752]

clarity could easily be obtained if art 100 changes definition for "Branch Circuit, Individual", that definition should say "... can supply ...". this would eliminate the use of a duplex, etc. a duplex on the end of such BC could/may supply more than one load, thus the duplex is not allowed. hence, fully restricted to a single receptacle for that specific type of BC.

the definition as-is simply says that only one load should be attached to that BC. heck, a 20A BC w/ 4 gang (8 receptacles) where just a fridge was plugged in seems to still fit the definition, up until the point two loads are attached, then you have violation.

i am sure i not the 1st to say, nec needs some fixin.

didn't see this post prior to mine

 

[iwire]

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment. A duplex does not limit the use to one piece of equipment which could be considered a violation of individual branch circuit

I disagree, there is no NEC limit to the number of outlets on a individual branch circuit. The definition clearly speaks about the utilization equipment not the number of outlets. There is no interpretation there, the definition says what it says even if we may not think it makes sense.

 

[iwire]

clarity could easily be obtained if art 100 changes definition for "Branch Circuit, Individual", that definition should say "... can supply ...". this would eliminate the use of a duplex, etc. a duplex on the end of such BC could/may supply more than one load, thus the duplex is not allowed. hence, fully restricted to a single receptacle for that specific type of BC..

Well what about hardwired equipment? A normal junction box could/may supply more than one load.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

On 20 amp circuits can 20 amp receptacles be used if dedicated circuit. Inspector telling me can't put multiple 20 amp devices on one circuit.? This allows for more then one 20 amp appliance to be used.

I believe you cannot connect a single 15 amp receptacle to a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

 

[JFletcher]

I believe you cannot connect a single 15 amp receptacle to a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

Yes. If the only outlet you had on a 20A circuit was this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...t-Single-Outlet-White-R52-T5015-0WS/202066674

it would be a code violation. A single 15A duplex on a 20A circuit is okay.

Someone posted above that you could use a 20A simplex receptacle on a 15A circuit; code references allowing that please.

 

[FionaZuppa]

Well what about hardwired equipment? A normal junction box could/may supply more than one load.

not in the context of the NEC, installation of, etc.

think of it this way.

i install a jbox, one BC and one hardwired microwave. done, but this finished installation can only supply one load.
i install a duplex receptacle, one BC and one plug-in microwave. done, but this finished installation can supply more than one load.

a jbox you would have to take apart to do what you are saying = new work. a duplex readily offers another receptacle to just plug into.

so replace my "could/may supply" with "could/may supply after final installation"

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

not in the context of the NEC, installation of, etc.

think of it this way.

i install a jbox, one BC and one hardwired microwave. done, but this finished installation can only supply one load.
i install a duplex receptacle, one BC and one plug-in microwave. done, but this finished installation can supply more than one load.

a jbox you would have to take apart to do what you are saying = new work. a duplex readily offers another receptacle to just plug into.

so replace my "could/may supply" with "could/may supply after final installation"

I believe a single duplex receptacle on a dedicated 20amp circuit is not a NEC violation.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I believe a single duplex receptacle on a dedicated 20amp circuit is not a NEC violation.

one 20A duplex on a 20A BC ("dedicated") seems valid to me. but does that fit art 100 definion of "bc, individual"? i say with def as-is the 20A duplex on a "dedicated" BC that is used for one item is still nec compliant. but if the goal of the art 100 def was to limit the # of receptacles attached to the BC to just one, then art 100 def needs to be changed, or some form of clarity provided in another section applicable to the installation/application in question.

this is a interesting read http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/branch-circuits-part-2

 

[mgookin]

Single 120V receptacle outlets are used on dedicated circuits often (individual branch circuits) especially in industrial and commercial installations. I put one in my residential garage for the air compressor although most people probably would not, especially if they're doing flat rate work competitively. We put them in restaurants, industrial facilities, medical facilities and repair shops all the time.

Does anyone think the intent of the code is other than one and only one appliance connected to that branch circuit when the code calls for an individual branch circuit? If it didn't mean that it would not be called an individual branch circuit; it would just be a branch circuit.

Let's keep using that Hobart mixer as an example.
Let's assume it needs 16A to run (set aside inrush momentarily) and the installation instructions require a dedicated branch circuit (an individual branch circuit).
You have two choices:
1. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a single outlet 20A receptacle.
2. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a duplex 20A receptacle.

In case #1 that Hobart runs like a sewing machine.
In case #2 somebody plugs in a warmer one minute before someone starts the Hobart machine. You have overloaded the circuit and the breaker opens (hopefully).

Looking at the big picture of the NEC as a whole, which case are we supposed to be designing and building for?

 

[iwire]

Single 120V receptacle outlets are used on dedicated circuits often (individual branch circuits) especially in industrial and commercial installations. I put one in my residential garage for the air compressor although most people probably would not, especially if they're doing flat rate work competitively. We put them in restaurants, industrial facilities, medical facilities and repair shops all the time.

Yes, they are often used, that is not in question.

Does anyone think the intent of the code is other than one and only one appliance connected to that branch circuit when the code calls for an individual branch circuit? If it didn't mean that it would not be called an individual branch circuit; it would just be a branch circuit.

Do you really believe that the CMP writing article 100 chose the wrong, clearly defined words by mistake?:huh:

Let's keep using that Hobart mixer as an example.
Let's assume it needs 16A to run (set aside inrush momentarily) and the installation instructions require a dedicated branch circuit (an individual branch circuit).
You have two choices:
1. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a single outlet 20A receptacle.
2. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a duplex 20A receptacle.

In case #1 that Hobart runs like a sewing machine.
In case #2 somebody plugs in a warmer one minute before someone starts the Hobart machine. You have overloaded the circuit and the breaker opens (hopefully).

Looking at the big picture of the NEC as a whole, which case are we supposed to be designing and building for?

Any receptacle circuit, general purpose or individual can be overloaded. It is not a safety issue.

The fact is, there are no words in the NEC to support an inspector prohibiting more than one receptacle on an individual branch circuit. To do so is without a doubt making up their own rules.




And for what purpose? Is there a safety issue now? If it is a safety issue will the use of a single receptacle change that?

To me it is a ridiculous thing to worry about when:

1. It is not a NEC violation
3. It is not a safety issue
5. It is so easily circumvented

 

[mgookin]

Yes, they are often used, that is not in question.



Do you really believe that the CMP writing article 100 chose the wrong, clearly defined words by mistake?:huh:





Any receptacle circuit, general purpose or individual can be overloaded. It is not a safety issue.

The fact is, there are no words in the NEC to support an inspector prohibiting more than one receptacle on an individual branch circuit. To do so is without a doubt making up their own rules.




And for what purpose? Is there a safety issue now? If it is a safety issue will the use of a single receptacle change that?

To me it is a ridiculous thing to worry about when:

1. It is not a NEC violation
2. It is not a safety issue
3. It is so easily circumvented

Branch circuit, individual: A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.

So it's the teenager in the kitchen who violates the NEC when they plug that warmer into the same circuit as the Hobart? And the EC can put 500 receptacles on that "individual" branch circuit?

 

[mwm1752]

I disagree, there is no NEC limit to the number of outlets on a individual branch circuit. The definition clearly speaks about the utilization equipment not the number of outlets. There is no interpretation there, the definition says what it says even if we may not think it makes sense.

you certainly have the right to disagree but -- This sounds silly to me as it is sensible to reason having multiple outlets on a circuit is nothing more than a general purpose branch circuit -- why define individual branch circuit in the first place? just for fun look at exhibits 100.7 & 100.8 in the NEC 2104 -- They are just examples to help with reasoning --

 

[growler]

You have two choices:
1. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a single outlet 20A receptacle.
2. Install a 20A breaker, pull your #12's and install a duplex 20A receptacle.

In case #1 that Hobart runs like a sewing machine.
In case #2 somebody plugs in a warmer one minute before someone starts the Hobart machine. You have overloaded the circuit and the breaker opens (hopefully).

Looking at the big picture of the NEC as a whole, which case are we supposed to be designing and building for?

NEC, purpose: The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

Intension: This code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

 

[iwire]

you certainly have the right to disagree but -- This sounds silly to me as it is sensible to reason having multiple outlets on a circuit is nothing more than a general purpose branch circuit -- why define individual branch circuit in the first place? just for fun look at exhibits 100.7 & 100.8 in the NEC 2104 -- They are just examples to help with reasoning --

What is silly is ignoring the code defined words the CMP chose to use and enforcing what you think it should say.

The handbook is not the code and simply the opinions of the writers

 

[mgookin]

What is silly is ignoring the code defined words the CMP chose to use and enforcing what you think it should say.

The handbook is not the code and simply the opinions of the writers

Apparently different members here have different understandings of what it says.
Can you tell us what you understand it to say?

 

[wwhitney]

Apparently different members here have different understandings of what it says.
Can you tell us what you understand it to say?

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.

How pieces of utilization equipment are connected? Just one? OK, it is an individual branch circuit. No discussion of number of receptacles, and what ifs don't change definitions.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[iwire]

Apparently different members here have different understandings of what it says.
Can you tell us what you understand it to say?

It says exactly what it says using the clearly defined words 'utilzation equipment' it does not use the clearly defined word 'outlet'

Word you let a contactor ignore clearly defined terms if they told you they felt it was silly or wrong?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

you certainly have the right to disagree but -- This sounds silly to me as it is sensible to reason having multiple outlets on a circuit is nothing more than a general purpose branch circuit -- why define individual branch circuit in the first place? just for fun look at exhibits 100.7 & 100.8 in the NEC 2104 -- They are just examples to help with reasoning --

There have been a number of proposal to require only an single receptacle outlet on an individual branch circuit. They were all rejected by the Code Making Panel.