200 Amp Mast

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emahler said:
do guys really do pvc/conduit risers and use AL wiring?
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emahler, lighten up, do you really expect these guys working out the back of a pick up, to use enything else, just because you have a fancy shop where you can cut, and thread the rigid, some of us live under the overpass and sleep in the cab when it rains, we don't have a shop, and copper wire. is something we take to the scrap yard, for beer money, who would waste it on a job, not only that, but putting a piece of rigid in the bed with the NM cable already wet, the conduit rolling around may nick the cable.
 
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that's the point...if we're running conduit (and we almost never use rigid) we're using copper...it's less than $100 difference gor your average 15 foot resi riser and can easily add $300+ to the job....if you use AL, stop deluding yourself and just use SEU....
 
emahler said:
that's the point...if we're running conduit (and we almost never use rigid) we're using copper...it's less than $100 difference gor your average 15 foot resi riser and can easily add $300+ to the job....if you use AL, stop deluding yourself and just use SEU....
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I agree, I never understood the point myself, I do know sometimes the owner thinks PVC is nicer than SEU so whatever they want to pay for... but that wasn't your point...
 
emahler said:
that's the point...if we're running conduit (and we almost never use rigid) we're using copper...it's less than $100 difference gor your average 15 foot resi riser and can easily add $300+ to the job....if you use AL, stop deluding yourself and just use SEU....
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For years I used nothing but copper for residential service risers. But I started to notice that there isn't one house in a hundred that has copper service. The only reason we use a mast is to gain height.

Why should we use copper, charge the same and just use Al. No one knows and know one cares.

On a lot of these jobs they are useing Al. for commercial services. A few years ago that didn't happen , it does now.
 
growler said:
For years I used nothing but copper for residential service risers. But I started to notice that there isn't one house in a hundred that has copper service. The only reason we use a mast is to gain height.

Why should we use copper, charge the same and just use Al. No one knows and know one cares.

On a lot of these jobs they are useing Al. for commercial services. A few years ago that didn't happen , it does now.
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if it works for you..commercial is a different ballgame....there could be thousands of $ difference...
 
goldstar said:
Rewire, if you're only getting $850 for a 200 amp masted service you're selling yourself short. You should't just figure in your hourly wage. You have to mark up your material and figure in $$ for your company overhead, in general. With gas prices, insurance and general operating prices going up you won't be charging $65/hr for too much longer. The hourly labor rates in my area range anywhere between $95 - $135 hr. depending on the type of work you do.
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You come to my area bid work at $135.00 hr and I will be buying your tools when you have your going out of business sale.A one man shop can live well at $65.00/hr and that is what I compete against so I bill 4 men at 65.00 each for 260.00 /hr thats 30 billable hours at 260.00 = 7,800.00 wk or 405,600.00 yr.
 
Supply and Demand

Supply and Demand

Individual home owners don't know materials, labor, or overhead costs. Its what you can sell them. What is reasonable to someone is a personal decision. If you explain that the cost of copper in the long run is cheaper than aluminum and rigid is bullet proof over SEC, they will ultimately make the decision based on there own guidelines. I give others a choice and let them decide. They always call me back even if I don't do the job. I have on occasion said I'm not interested in doing this but will recommend a few people that might be. There is always a confused look on there faces at that point.
Personally I want to work for someone that doesn't micromanage me, allows me to do the job I was hired for, and with the materials I think best suit the job. Run the job, don't let the customer run you out of business. I would prefer to be working comfortably than scrounging for work and letting someone else run me out of town.
Its called supply and demand. You can work all the time and charge less or you can work half the time go fishing and make just as much money by charging more. So put that salesman cap on and smile all the way to the bank.
 
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Rewire said:
You come to my area bid work at $135.00 hr and I will be buying your tools when you have your going out of business sale.A one man shop can live well at $65.00/hr and that is what I compete against so I bill 4 men at 65.00 each for 260.00 /hr thats 30 billable hours at 260.00 = 7,800.00 wk or 405,600.00 yr.
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Wow out of that $65 how much is left after you pay your wages, take out all the taxes, the cost of all your insurances including workers comp, and your basic overhead costs and operating expenses for the trucks. I figure there is around 69 cents an hour left. I have bare min overhead and small operating expenses, and $65 per man per hour, would not begin to pay my basic expenses, for a border line electrician with a little know how, and if i wanted an electrician with good skills, I may be able to break even at $95 to 100 provided the employee had no benifits and a small number of days off. The numbers you have are not near any real numbers for even the smallest one man shop operating as a legal business

If after your expenses are paid you have $65 then that is about normal for a low end service shop.
 
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satcom said:
Wow out of that $65 how much is left after you pay your wages, take out all the taxes, the cost of all your insurances including workers comp, and your basic overhead costs and operating expenses for the trucks. I figure there is around 69 cents an hour left. I have bare min overhead and small operating expenses, and $65 per man per hour, would not begin to pay my basic expenses, for a border line electrician with a little know how, and if i wanted an electrician with good skills, I may be able to break even at $95 to 100 provided the employee had no benifits and a small number of days off. The numbers you have are not near any real numbers for even the smallest one man shop operating as a legal business

If after your expenses are paid you have $65 then that is about normal for a low end service shop.
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After all expenses I have 13.75/hr for each man or 55.00hr.I have no benefit package and our pay is between $15.00-18.00/hr we are not in a big city our county has a population of around 15,000.
 
Rewire said:
After all expenses I have 13.75/hr for each man or 55.00hr.I have no benefit package and our pay is between $15.00-18.00/hr we are not in a big city our county has a population of around 15,000.
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Yikes!, thanks for the heads up on where not to live...
 
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stickboy1375 said:
Yikes!, thanks for the heads up on not where to live...
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Low property taxes mine were $285.00,nice homes for under $90.000.00 some with acreage,sales tax around 5% fuel at $3.00 gal is the only real expense.Very low crime rate 0 murders in the county last year.
 
emahler said:
if you use AL, stop deluding yourself and just use SEU....
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Can you provide any real electrical reason for that?

AL is as good as copper in most situations, the power company is coming at you with AL.

Now on the business side, heck I agree, the perceived added value can make you some money.
 
Rewire said:
After all expenses I have 13.75/hr for each man or 55.00hr.I have no benefit package and our pay is between $15.00-18.00/hr we are not in a big city our county has a population of around 15,000.
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This is the true reason there are one man shops, and unlicensed moonlighters out there. If all, and I mean all the electrical contractors in this land would pay a proper wage and benifit to the worker then many would ever feel the need to strike out on their own.
 
macmikeman said:
This is the true reason there are one man shops, and unlicensed moonlighters out there. If all, and I mean all the electrical contractors in this land would pay a proper wage and benifit to the worker then many would ever feel the need to strike out on their own.
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Whats a proper wage? Our median income for our state is Around $40,000.00 yr is this a proper wage? Two people making 35,000.00 a yr = $70,000 thats well above the poverty level.
 
macmikeman said:
This is the true reason there are one man shops, and unlicensed moonlighters out there. If all, and I mean all the electrical contractors in this land would pay a proper wage and benifit to the worker then many would ever feel the need to strike out on their own.
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Forget benifits, just paying a living wage costs a good buck, if his area has a lower cost of living, that helps on direct labor costs, but usualy does not help with reducing the overhead, and operating expenses, they are pretty much the same for even the most remote location, and sometimes can be higher if you need to travel any distance from one job to the next such as rural living.

If he can make money at the low rates, more power to him, but I think he may be missing some of his real expenses, seems like he is working more of a job, which is fine as long as you know your cost of operating, so you can stay ahead of the bills.
 
iwire said:
Can you provide any real electrical reason for that?

AL is as good as copper in most situations, the power company is coming at you with AL.

Now on the business side, heck I agree, the perceived added value can make you some money.
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I could never understand the benifit of using copper either, when the utility drops are AL, As long as the AL is installed right, it should hold up fine for many years, Eric, I use AL in conduit because the SEU heads tend to allow water into the cable.
 
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