20A to 30A extension cord

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JES2727

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A customer has asked me to fabricate (8) 100' long 30 amp extension cords for their warehouse: "They need to plug in to a regular 110 wall outlet, with the female end having a L5-30R connector."
Obviously it's a cheater cord and it's wrong. If they intend to plug something with a 30A T/L male plug into a 20A circuit it will likely violate 210.23(A)(1). But is the cord itself a violation? I'm looking for a code section that addresses this but I haven't found it yet. Do any of you have any ideas? Thoughts on liability if I provide the cords?
 
I believe 110.3 covers this. If the individual items that are used to make the "extension cord" are listed, labeled and suitable for use. Extension cords cannot be used as a substitute for permanent wiring. The fire marshal will write them for it on routine inspection.
 
Vince1971 said:
I believe 110.3 covers this. If the individual items that are used to make the "extension cord" are listed, labeled and suitable for use. Extension cords cannot be used as a substitute for permanent wiring. The fire marshal will write them for it on routine inspection.
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I am inclined to agree. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with making something someone asks for even if the code would not allow their use.
 
Vince1971 said:
I believe 110.3 covers this. If the individual items that are used to make the "extension cord" are listed, labeled and suitable for use. Extension cords cannot be used as a substitute for permanent wiring. The fire marshal will write them for it on routine inspection.
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For you and/or the OP, did his post imply that this was for a permanent connection? If so, I didn't see that.
 
Strathead said:
For you and/or the OP, did his post imply that this was for a permanent connection? If so, I didn't see that.
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I don't know if they are for permanent use. They simply said they need 'some electrical whips for use in our warehouse'. I figure the less I know, the better.
 
JES2727 said:
If they intend to plug something with a 30A T/L male plug into a 20A circuit it will likely violate 210.23(A)(1). But is the cord itself a violation?
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A 30 amp cord plugged into a 20 amp socket would be a welcome change. Usually people are plugging 10 amp cords in with 20 amp loads. Since the ampacity of the cord is higher than the circuit, the circuit breaker will do it's job if the circuit is overloaded and the cord shouldn't even get warm.
 
JES2727 said:
A customer has asked me to fabricate (8) 100' long 30 amp extension cords for their warehouse: "They need to plug in to a regular 110 wall outlet, with the female end having a L5-30R connector."
Obviously it's a cheater cord and it's wrong. If they intend to plug something with a 30A T/L male plug into a 20A circuit it will likely violate 210.23(A)(1). But is the cord itself a violation? I'm looking for a code section that addresses this but I haven't found it yet. Do any of you have any ideas? Thoughts on liability if I provide the cords?
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You can buy adapters to do this in Home Depot or on Amazon.

There is liability in everything that we do, even changing out a simple light switch. I don't see any extra liability to worry about in what you mentioned. You are supplying equipment to someone, the way they use it is on them.

You can always include a note in the estimate/invoice saying that you recommended installing larger circuits and that no equipment drawing more than 16/20A should be connected to those cords, etc.
 
JES2727 said:
A customer has asked me to fabricate (8) 100' long 30 amp extension cords for their warehouse: "They need to plug in to a regular 110 wall outlet, with the female end having a L5-30R connector."
Obviously it's a cheater cord and it's wrong. If they intend to plug something with a 30A T/L male plug into a 20A circuit it will likely violate 210.23(A)(1). But is the cord itself a violation? I'm looking for a code section that addresses this but I haven't found it yet. Do any of you have any ideas? Thoughts on liability if I provide the cords?
Click to expand...

I don't see a definitive smoking gun here. The load is unknown, but as long as the receptacle is properly protected at 15 or 20 amps and the cord's cable can handle 30 amps (in case someone later "upgrades" the plug to a 30a), there's not much more code-wise to consider, imho.

Unless the customer explains the intended load, you can't determine a violation 210.23(A)(1) would occur. Given the nature of "cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place", your liability is more limited (a jury can find you guilty of anything) here than if he requested you install cords on the actual equipment. You're essentially fabricating a long adapter cord. The Edison receptacles should be on no more than a 20 ampere ocpd (I recommend you check), and therefore would trip on a 24-30 ampere load. As long as the cord is rated for 30 amps there is no inherent danger. I would price out extra-hard-use cord suitable for wet locations, and figure in voltage drop for the long run. You will likely have a lot of trouble finding a plug that can handle the cable.

Now, having said that, OSHA is the authority that could have an issue with these cordsets. Their regs restrict use of extension cords in commercial and industrial locations. In some cases they frown on non-factory-molded cordsets. As long as you are recognized as a "qualified" person in the eyes of OSHA, they are okay with you making "repairs" to existing extension cords, and in fabricating them where such cords are permitted. You might want to have a chat with the local office to see what they would permit....if you want to take this to that level at all. Remember that a call could trigger a site visit, and you'll lose the work and the customer forever.
 
I have a portable generator with L14-30 receptacle and an adapter cord to go from that recetacle to a 6-50 receptacle so I can use a welder with it when I need to weld out in the middle of nowhere. This isn't very often and I would get a more suitable welder-generator if it were something I needed more frequently. Can't weld with too much "heat" or it trips generator breaker, but works with lower amp settings of the welder.

I guess my point is some equipment may work on such an arrangement but has limitations.

RV's is a common example. One with a 30 amp cord works on an 30-20 amp adapter, but you need to be more careful what you run or you are tripping the 20 amp breaker. One with a 50 amp cord works on a 50-30 amp adapter, but you can't run multiple AC units is usually first thing people figure out with this adapter.
 
Not really the same or analogous situation as the OP, but I saw this at a job the other day. Now this is the kind of thing that seems like a bad idea....
 

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electrofelon said:
Not really the same or analogous situation as the OP, but I saw this at a job the other day. Now this is the kind of thing that seems like a bad idea....
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I can see someone using that to make use of extension cords they already have on hand instead of making up ones with the correct ends on them for what they need. They maybe have a 5-15 male to 6-15 or 6-20 female adapter set for the other end.
 
kwired said:
I can see someone using that to make use of extension cords they already have on hand instead of making up ones with the correct ends on them for what they need. They maybe have a 5-15 male to 6-15 or 6-20 female adapter set for the other end.
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With the male end for a 240V outlet and the female end for 120V, the only way that would work is if the ground is being used a the neutral which is a big no-no.
 
Coppersmith said:
With the male end for a 240V outlet and the female end for 120V, the only way that would work is if the ground is being used a the neutral which is a big no-no.
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I think you took what I said the wrong way.

I was mentioning I can see someone use such "adaptor" you posted to plug into an existing 6-15/20 receptacle, use 100 feet of extension cord with factory molded ends on it (5/15) as those are easiest to find, then make opposite adaptor at the load end so they can plug in a tool/appliance with a 6-15/20 cord cap on it.

They are simply extending a straight 240 volt circuit, maybe not the wisest method of doing so, but it works. Try to plug something rated 120 volt into the end 100 feet away not thinking about what was done and you likely are going to toast whatever it is you plugged in.
 
kwired said:
I think you took what I said the wrong way.

I was mentioning I can see someone use such "adaptor" you posted to plug into an existing 6-15/20 receptacle, use 100 feet of extension cord with factory molded ends on it (5/15) as those are easiest to find, then make opposite adaptor at the load end so they can plug in a tool/appliance with a 6-15/20 cord cap on it.

They are simply extending a straight 240 volt circuit, maybe not the wisest method of doing so, but it works. Try to plug something rated 120 volt into the end 100 feet away not thinking about what was done and you likely are going to toast whatever it is you plugged in.
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I understand now. Thanks.
 
I think the important point is that you don't want to build a cord set that will allow someone who doesn't know its intended use and isn't savvy to all the voltage configurations to plug in and wind up with a dangerous or damaging situation.
 
I worked at a low-budget theater once that used off-the-shelf 5-15 extension cords, with adapters, for almost everything ... including speaker wires.
Never heard about a speaker being supplied with 120 volts, but I have to assume that if it's possible, it will happen.
 
drcampbell said:
I worked at a low-budget theater once that used off-the-shelf 5-15 extension cords, with adapters, for almost everything ... including speaker wires.
Never heard about a speaker being supplied with 120 volts, but I have to assume that if it's possible, it will happen.
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I used to have some adapters that would turn grounded extension cords into speaker cables.
 
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