Sorry I was AWOL on this request
Sorry I was AWOL on this request
iwire said:
It might be legal.
I question if it's legal for him to be doing this work.
As his zip shows RI for a location he needs to be a licensed electrician to be doing this work.
Sorry, been AWOL a week landscaping and plumbing, plastic fabricating and wreaking political havoc, several other things for which I'm not licensed.
Bob, watch the movie
Brazil and you'll see where I got my screen name. I guess this is what I get for trying to be an honest contributor to the geographically based aspects of the ad servers that pay for forums like this. I should have put in the zip code for Timbuktu. Elwood Blues knew what to do when it came to listing an address, I don't know how that moment of candor escaped me.
As it happens, this is my house so I'm less reserved than usual, although you might get the feeling that this is a marginal distinction.
In any event, perhaps the confusion is the misconception that legit and legal are synonyms. I was asking in the abstract whether such a wiring scheme would provide ground fault and over current protection. Whether it is legal is a secondary question.
I understand that this is a 'code' forum and that professionals take their responsibility to accomplish their work in this area with the highest degree of safety quite seriously. But the code and the law are simply surrogates for that ideal. When they become purposes unto themselves they loose their legitimacy, ergo ironically divorcing the concept of legal and legit even further. The fact that it matters what state I am in should reveal the underlying weakness of the argument. Do the physics of electrons change from state to state?
But I digress. The 50 amp GFI spa boxes
are two pole. That said, in reading another GFI thread I realize you 'require' an insulated neutral. That would mean running 12/3 that would probably overrun the cost savings, as unlike some 240 volt appliances that use 120 fans, controls or other gadgets while putting heavy motor or heating loads on the 240, the shower electrics have no 120 load whatsoever, so if I put the GFI in the main panel I save a conductor, which in terms of the cost 3 wire romex is almost like saving 2 conductors. (or course for service convenience I might like the GFI in a subpanel near the appliance so I haven't decided one way or another which leads me to the next question).
That said, I don't believe the neutral pigtail from a 2 pole GFI presents any load unless the appliance has a 120 load, then this neutral would also protect the entire circuit against faults in any 120 loads. So if I don't have any 120 loading, I don't really think the neutral is necessary from a theoretical standpoint. Does the breaker itself actually use a 120 current in some tiny consumptive fashion to monitor the circuit in the first place? This would be a case for a covered neutral independent of the appliance requirements albeit it could likely be of much less ampacity than the dedicated circuit, but my intuitive guess is there is no 120 load from the breaker itself. I am guessing that a 2-pole GFI works by comparing the relative amperage on the two hot wires in the 240 circuit and any infinitesimal power consumption associated with that process is scavenged from the circuit it is in and not a separate 120 load. I would be very interested if there are manufaturer or theory side folks who could confirm this.
It's not really a big issue, 1 30 ft. pass of 12 gauge insulated conductor isn't going to break the bank here (although wait until next week when the
Chinese really gear up their building boom), I'm just interested.
Thanks and sorry it took me so long to get back,.
'Harry'
