210.52 (f)

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Quit picking him up. Tell him that you need the extra time for your your family, that you have to pick up your kids or whatever. And don't take any crap from him. Tell the boss you have the card and this kid is annoying you and that he better pay attention to what you want.
 
As long as I am venting, I told the kid to do the chime. He refused to do it to my specs. I gave him something else to do.

The kid wanted to instal the "tranny" in a 1 gang box and mont the chime over the box. I said this is unacceptable because the "tranny" will over heat and die. He said in his two years, he has never replaced a transformer.

I have replaced many transformers stuffed into 1 gang boxes. I install the "tranny" in a closet, over the header, inbetween the header and the top plate. This way, if the door bell button shorts out, the overheated "tranny" can't start a fire.

edit for spelling
 
For me, under these conditions, there would have to be some sort of compensation, fuel, wages, 1/2 day off....something to keep me happy and content. I hate to think that I would be like that, but just discussing this has got me thinking, I feel for you. As far as the questions he asks, if he asks out of genuine interest, I love those conversations, and it makes me know for sure myself (kinda like a certain forum I know of :wink: ), but if every question comes accross as a challenge or debate, it would grow old and my answer would be, "Because I said so. Pull wire A to point B until I tell you otherwise." I've been there and that's why we are looking for help now.
 
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sparky_magoo said:
As long as I am venting, I told the kid to do the chime. He refused to do it to my specs. I gave him something else to do.
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Forget something else for him, he can sit on the curb until quitting time if he wants to wait for a ride home.
 
360Youth said:
For me, under these conditions, there would have to be some sort of compensation, fuel, wages, 1/2 day off....something to keep me happy and content. I hate to think that I would be like that, but just discussing this has got me thinking, I feel for you. As far as the questions he asks, if he asks out of genuine interest, I love those conversations, and it makes me know for sure myself (kinda like a certain forum I know of :wink: ), but if every question comes accross as a challenge or debate, it would grow old and my answer would be, "Because I said so. Pull wire A to point B until I tell you otherwise." I've been there and that's why we are lookking for help now.
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Your statement sez alot. I have been doing this for a long time. I am making good money for this area.

I get my pleasure in this trade from two areas. A job well done, and more importantly, passing on the knowledge I have learned to youngsters.

It's a shame that kids today don't repect the law. I am greatful for the hardasses who taught me.
 
I lean more towards plain old lazy more than lack of respect, but the two probably go hand in hand. I'd be be bummed if new help got between me and enjoying where I work.
 
When I was a kid, I would have gotton a pair of nines thrown at me. This can't happen anymore. I doubt he knows what a pair of nines is.
 
sparky_magoo said:
When I was a kid, I would have gotton a pair of nines thrown at me. This can't happen anymore. I doubt he knows what a pair of nines is.
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I never played cards much as a kid, except the occasional Uno. :grin:
 
Sparky, it is time to start looking for a new job , under the radar so to speak , If your boss does not recognize what he has with you in his employ he may be a "great guy" but he is a crummy businessman. don't do anything rash but it is time for you to move on ,.. you know it is , you have expressed this in different ways on this cite . It's just time, no hard feelings , just time to find another job,.. the fish rots from the head.
 
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I love an apprentice that wants to argue.I simply hand them the code book from my truck and say "Teach me something." The look on the apprentices face is worth a million words ,while they are trying to find a code based on Habit or improper teachings from another "Electrician." I typically say "Come on, it's only 9 Chapters,and Shall Not means NO!" "You must suffer from Test Anxiety.. I understand; it happens to the best apprentices at your skill level."
 
This kid needs this tattooed to his forehead backwards so he sees it every day when he primps his egotistical self in the mirror,..

Apprentice; 1. One who is bound by indentures or by legal agreement to serve a mechanic, or other person, for a certain time, with a view to learn the art, or trade, in which his master is bound to instruct him.
2. One not well versed in a subject; a tyro.
 
Karl H said:
I love an apprentice that wants to argue.I simply hand them the code book from my truck and say "Teach me something." The look on the apprentices face is worth a million words ,while they are trying to find a code based on Habit or improper teachings from another "Electrician." I typically say "Come on, it's only 9 Chapters,and Shall Not means NO!" "You must suffer from Test Anxiety.. I understand; it happens to the best apprentices at your skill level."
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You shamed me real bad. I will follow your advice. If we have any problems Monday, I will give him my code book.

I didn't get much response about the chime. How do you guys do it? It doesn't really matter, I explained what I want and he wouldn't do it.
 
sparky_magoo said:
We don't have time for me to spend time in my code book.
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Have him read while he's eating lunch. Have him show you the codes that back up his side of the argument.

Don't tell him, but this will teach him how to use the code, too.
 
Pardon my redundant answer above. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread first. I'm about to do it again.

sparky_magoo said:
I can't get him to actually use a code book.
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In that case, when he says it's okay to put the laundry receptacle on another circuit, I would say "Okay, show me that it's okay, and you can do it. Otherwise, you have to do it the way I tell you."

If that still doesn't get him to use the book, then don't respond to arguments at all. Once someone hears you and says you're wrong, it's no longer a discussion, it's a lecture. Ignore his lecture.
 
If the relationship between your boss and you is not good enough that he will not respect your authority over an apprentice, then something's gotta give. There's a big difference between a great apprentice and an apprentice who would be great if he'd shut up and get his work done, and quit second-guessing everything you do, or everything he is asked to do.

I don't believe anything short of drastic would snap this kid out of his egotistical haze. Kicking him off your crew probably wouldn't even do it. A scary lecture from the boss about getting canned if he doesn't drop the attitude might do it, but I don't know, judging from your description.

If the apprentice has more weight in the boss's eyes than a licensed journeyman electrician with ethics such as you, then the boss needs to get his eyes checked. He will be able to afford the eye exam after you move on to another shop and gives the arrogant apprentice your van. :)
 
George is right.

Your problem is not with your apprentice, it's with your boss. While you talk about how great a boss he is, you are being ordered to provide taxi service and ignored when you bring up concerns about the apprentice.

I appreciate you are trying to make the kid do the right thing, but from all your messages it appears he doesn't care to do his job according to code. This is intolerable. It puts you in the position of risking your license or becoming personally unproductive by spending too much time supervising and correcting him. Yet your concerns fall on deaf ears. If I was the owner I'd be having a three-way discussion explaining the relative position of apprentice to him together with you, so there could be no doubt about the pecking order. None of us are always right. All of us old dogs can learn something new. I learn new things constantly from my employees - there's always a lot of change and new technology. But I'd be damned if I let them argue with me or put me in the position of looking it up to prove them wrong. Your boss should support you, not look the other way.

Then there's the taxi business. Are you paid for your time? If you boss has assigned this to you as a job ("he ordered me to do it"), then you should be paid for your time, of else you're on the clock when you arrive at the kid's residence and need to leave the job site so you can get him home at "quitting time". You should also submit an expense report so you can be reimbursed for the mileage.
 
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