3-way switches w/ load indicator??

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brantmacga

brantmacga

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Georgia
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Former Child
Do any of you know of a 3 way switch that indicates if a load is on it? I have a guy that wants to put one exhaust fan in the attic and run inlets to the bathrooms. They did this on the last house they built, and the electrician put a 3-way switch in all the bathrooms. you can't hear the fan so you really don't know if its on. The problem I see is that if mom goes in the bathroom and turns the fan on, and then jimmy goes in his bathroom and flips the switch, the fan is now off. it sounds like a bad idea, and i'm surprised the other electrician didn't think of this. i've come up w/ a complicated scenario that would work using contactors, but its far too expensive to do. if anyone knows of any switches that will do this, let me know. thanks, b.


just thinking after originally posting this; i could put some jewel lights in the ceiling next to the inlet, or in the switchbox, that will light up when the fan is on. may have to do that.
 
There are two versions of a lighted 3-way switch. Lighted when on, and lighted when off. For a lighted when on, you need a neutral at each 3-way location. Best of luck on that one, if it wasn't planned for originally. Might get better service with all single poles, wired in parallel.
 
I have a simple solution. I did this for a detached garage's interior light with 3-ways in the garage and in the house, so the light's status could be seen from the house. You can use these for an unlimited number of 3-ways and 4-ways.

Get a pair of 100K resistors (1/4w is plenty) and a neon bulb (NE-2) for each switch location. Connect the two resistors in series, and wire the pair between the travelers. Connect the neon bulb between the resistor pair's center point and the neutral.

It works because, whenever the light is off, the point between the resistors is at 60v; too low for the neon bulb to fire. If the load is on, so is the neon. As a bonus, if the bulb burns out, the neon will not go out.

The physical mounting of the bulb is up to you; the last one I did, I drilled a 1/8" hole in the switch plate and taped the bulb behind the hole. Be sure to sleeve the resistors and wires.
 
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brantmacga said:
just thinking after originally posting this; i could put some jewel lights in the ceiling next to the inlet, or in the switchbox, that will light up when the fan is on. may have to do that.
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The only problem with this idea is that, unless you run additional wires, it can only be done at the last switch; the one whose common connects to the load. My method requires no new wiring, and can be done at every 3-way (and 4-way) switch.

Added: I would only do the parallel-switches method if 2-pole switches are used, so turning off the light in one room allows the second room to be able to turn the fan off. Otherwise, the fan is likely to run 24/7. Another choice would be to use paralleled timer switches.
 
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fan control

fan control

Perhaps spring wound intermatic single pole fan control timers in each bath wired in parellel so that they could all use the single fan and let it shut off automatically incase someone leaves the sp switch on.
just my 2 -1/2 cent(inflation)
 
brantmacga said:
They did this on the last house they built, and the electrician put a 3-way switch in all the bathrooms. you can't hear the fan so you really don't know if its on.
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The first time I installed a Fan Tech Fan (remote bath fan) I did exactly what this guy did. Now I use sp switches in parallel. Some customers complain because the kids leave the switches on so the best bet is a 10 minute timer switch in each sp location.

BTW--- almost all of my 3 ways have the neutral. I usually feed one switch-- 3 wire to the next and switch leg out of that 3way.
 
I take it there is a problem with running more wire, as if you can run two cores to every switch position then there really is no problem.

With existing only wire it gets harder. I would see if the homeowner would accept a timer, and if so, use a single electronic timer and just have a push button to start the fan in each bathroom, thus not requiring an indicator lamp and no extra wires to pull.
 
these are all great ideas and i appreciate them. i think for cost reasons, the sp's in parallell would be the way to go. these are just inexpensive spec homes. and with this method there's no need for a jewel light, because you know if the switch is on or off. i'll price it w/ the timers though just to see if they want to spend a little extra for the convenience. thanks for the help. b.


another note: i was looking through a broan catalog i picked up at the supply house this afternoon, and they have a recessed light/exhaust fan combo. looks very nice if you have a customer who wants cans and doesn't want to see the fan.
 
I did the same install a few years ago and did not think that far in advance. I gave what they asked for, the ability to turn on and off a remote vent fan controlling multiple baths, but it did not occur to me in time how to indicate whether the fan was already on in another bath. :rolleyes: My best solution at the time was to check each one of them and have, when all switches where in the down position, that the fan would be off. Who knows how many times 2 of the switches where "on" at the same time, which would defeat the purpose? Probably not much. At least it allowed them to treat the switch as a SP and the fan would hopefully not be left running.
 
This would probably cost more than the customer is willing to spend, but what about using s/pole occupancy sensors wired in parallel?
 
LarryFine said:
Was my suggestion that weird? It's certainly cheap enough, probably $1 per switch.
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This is a novel suggestion and it took me a while to figure out how it worked. The key, of course, is that the NE-2 has for all practical purposes an infinite impedance. When the load is switched off, a minuscule amount of current continues to flow through the voltage divider and through the load, thus extinguishing the neon bulb. This is the sort of solution I might try in my own home but I'm not sure I'd want to do this on the job. I just don't like the idea of the bulb taped to the back of the cover plate. At some point a home owner is going to find out that he can't remove the cover plate without pulling wires out of the box. It's hard to guess what would happen next. :cool: This is obviously not a UL approved installation, and although the parts are cheap, it would require a significant amount of time and trouble to accomplish in a safe and secure manner.
 
LarryFine said:
Was my suggestion that weird?
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It must be, I still don't get it. :)

The thing is, I doubt I'll ever try, as I don't know where to get the parts.

The biggest reason is, if the inspector views trimming a coverplate to be a 110.3(B) violation (as some do), then drilling a small hole and installing a bulb in it would be too.

That said, the same inspector likely would sign off on a pilot light installed in a drilled single-gang blank... ;)
 
georgestolz said:
...That said, the same inspector likely would sign off on a pilot light installed in a drilled single-gang blank... ;)
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I believe the best option for the scenario given is to go with a pilot light switch (such as Cooper 1201PL [pdf link]) in each location.
 
Simple solution ....Just put a 2 pole switch in each bathroom. one pole controls the light like a single pole switch. The other pole goes to the exhaust fan from each. This does 2 things, it gives independant control of the light and fan from either bathroom. On the fan switch leg they tie together that way if one switch is on and the other is off it will still power the fan and nothing will change if the other switch is turned on. Now if the first switch is turned off still nothing will change until the second (or third or fourth) switch is off. As long as all the switches use the same circuit this works great.
 
LarryFine said:
Was my suggestion that weird? It's certainly cheap enough, probably $1 per switch.
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How many electricians would really know how to do that. I wouldn't -- I never did any soldering of electronics and I don't know any guys around here that could either.. We have a unique group on the forum not the typical--that's for sure.
 
My own home has a Honeywell H46 humidistat in each bathroom, wired in parallel to a NuTone ILFK in line fan that serves all the bathrooms. That way, the fan runs long enough after a shower to remove all the moisture. No operator intervention required. I just leave all the humidistats set at 45%.
 
mdshunk said:
My own home has a Honeywell H46 humidistat in each bathroom, wired in parallel to a NuTone ILFK in line fan that serves all the bathrooms. That way, the fan runs long enough after a shower to remove all the moisture. No operator intervention required. I just leave all the humidistats set at 45%.
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What about [undesirable] odors?
 
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