30 amp water heater (re-identifying white wire) just venting

[goldstar]

I recently failed an inspection on a 30 amp residential water heater. Inspector claims that I have to re-identify the white wire as a non-grounded conductor. Now in all fairness, while he just might end up being correct for some strange NEC reason, logic tells me that if the black and white wires of a 10/2 MC cable are landed on a 2-P-30 amp circuit breaker, wouldn't it seem logical that the white wire is a non-grounded conductor ? Not to mention, I can't think of any 30 amp, 120 volt residential appliances that would require the white # 10 to be landed on the ground bar. Normally I wouldn't care if it was a local job but, as luck would have it, I have to travel 1 hr and back for a 5 minute job to mark a cable.

A simple phone call to me would have sufficed. I could have made the correction the next time I was in the area. IMHO, just a clear cut case of an inspector over-extending his authority by slapping on a red sticker and giving my customer the impression that I'm the south end of a north bound horse.

 

[iwire]

Yeah, that darn inspector actully doing the job he is paid to do.

The nerve of some people!:rant:

By the way, it is required to be re-identified at both ends.

200.7 (C) Circuits of 50 Volts or More. The use of insulation that is white or gray or that has three continuous white stripes for other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or more shall be permitted only as in (1) through (3).

(1) If part of a cable assembly and where the insulation is permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an un-grounded conductor, by painting or other effective means at its termination, and at each location where theconductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, or green.

 

[busman]

Ever wire for a RV connection. Very common use of 30A, 120V at residences.

Mark

 

[schneiderjm]

As a Building Code Official, I expect Electricians to know and understand the Code requirements.
If all electrical work could be trusted to be Code compliant, we would not need Inspectors.
It is disappointing that when most jobs are inspected, Code violations are found, and then the Electricians complain about their own mistakes.

 

[augie47]

I'd say to judge the situation, one would have to be privilege to any and all conversations. There is many a time when making an inspection that I will use my marker to re-identify a conductor when I feel the electrician simply forgot.
When I read your post: " Inspector claims that I have to re-identify the white wire as a non-grounded conductor. Now in all fairness, while he just might end up being correct for some strange NEC reason," I have to wonder if the inspector picked up on the condescending attitude somewhere along the line and decided he needed to "set the tone".
As noted, you failed to comply with the Code and he was doing his job. In my experience, how that situation is addressed is often determined by attitudes on both sides.

 

[iwire]

I have to wonder if the inspector picked up on the condescending attitude somewhere along the line and decided he needed to "set the tone".

I think that may well be the case.

Normally I wouldn't care if it was a local job but, as luck would have it, I have to travel 1 hr and back for a 5 minute job to mark a cable.

A simple phone call to me would have sufficed. I could have made the correction the next time I was in the area.

If I was an inspector and I did not know you and your character there is no way I would just take your word for it that you would stop by 'sometime in the future when you where back in the neighborhood' to take care of it.

If a customer you did not really know owed you money and they told you on the phone that they would pay you sometime in the future when they were up that way .... would you agree to that?

 

[infinity]

If re-identification was only required at the panel as an inspector I would simply make a ring around the white conductor with a Sharpie and help the electrician out. Then I would call him so that he didn't make the same mistake twice. But since it's required at both ends the inspector was just doing his job.

 

[Cavie]

I'll bet that you will never forget to do that again.

 

[qcroanoke]

I recently failed an inspection on a 30 amp residential water heater. Inspector claims that I have to re-identify the white wire as a non-grounded conductor. Now in all fairness, while he just might end up being correct for some strange NEC reason, logic tells me that if the black and white wires of a 10/2 MC cable are landed on a 2-P-30 amp circuit breaker, wouldn't it seem logical that the white wire is a non-grounded conductor ?

A simple phone call to me would have sufficed. I could have made the correction the next time I was in the area.

He is right. Strange NEC reason or not.
Logic has nothing to do with it. The code book says you have to do it.

 

[goldstar]

As a Building Code Official, I expect Electricians to know and understand the Code requirements.

Interesting comment. As a Building Code Official do you know everything there is to know about THE CODE or the plumbing code, building code, energy code, etc. Do you think you can strap on a tool belt and go out there and do 10 different jobs in 10 different types of facilities exactly correct and meet every code requirement imaginable ? I'd bet a weeks pay you'd fail somewhere along the line. Yes, I made a mistake and I will make the correction. I just don't like to get my b@!!s busted.

If all electrical work could be trusted to be Code compliant, we would not need Inspectors.

I am 100% in agreement with you and I've always been a proponent of third party inspections

It is disappointing that when most jobs are inspected, Code violations are found, and then the Electricians complain about their own mistakes.

Don't be disappointed. I'd be the first one to recognize that an inspector did the right thing especially if he failed a job for a serious code violation. I know he's doing his job. I'm just venting because I hate failing a job for chicken $&!* stuff, especially one where I have to travel an hour to get to.

 

[goldstar]

I'll bet that you will never forget to do that again.

You have to pay for your education !!!:happyyes:

 

[GoldDigger]

...Don't be disappointed. I'd be the first one to recognize that an inspector did the right thing especially if he failed a job for a serious code violation. I know he's doing his job. I'm just venting because I hate failing a job for chicken $&!* stuff, especially one where I have to travel an hour to get to.

Speaking of which, do you think that he is going to come back and reinspect or take your word for it? I guess he will have a lot shorter travel time than you.

 

[goldstar]

I'd say to judge the situation, one would have to be privilege to any and all conversations. There is many a time when making an inspection that I will use my marker to re-identify a conductor when I feel the electrician simply forgot.
When I read your post: " Inspector claims that I have to re-identify the white wire as a non-grounded conductor. Now in all fairness, while he just might end up being correct for some strange NEC reason," I have to wonder if the inspector picked up on the condescending attitude somewhere along the line and decided he needed to "set the tone".
As noted, you failed to comply with the Code and he was doing his job. In my experience, how that situation is addressed is often determined by attitudes on both sides.

Augie, I don't think attitude came into play here. It was my mistake and I admit it. I was unaware of this particular code section and I also knew that the job was being inspected. If I knew about that section of the code why would I deliberately not re-identify the wire ? Just to see if the EI would pick it up ? My whole point to this tirade was that every other part of the installation was neat, correct, code compliant and safe. Why slap a red sticker on the panel and infer to the homeowner that I committed a serious code violation ? Just being a DB - IMHO.

 

[goldstar]

Speaking of which, do you think that he is going to come back and reinspect or take your word for it? I guess he will have a lot shorter travel time than you.

I'll take a photo and mail it to him. I'm a stand up guy. :roll:

 

[Gregg Harris]

200.7 has been on the books over 30 years

 

[goldstar]

200.7 has been on the books over 30 years

I'm sure you're correct. I just never had occasion to run across it. How many service upgrades have you done and the existing AC circuits weren't re-identified ? At either end !!! That brings up a point, are you required to re-identify the white wire of a 240V circuit on a service upgrade and should you get tagged for it ?

 

[Volta]

I'm sure you're correct. I just never had occasion to run across it. How many service upgrades have you done and the existing AC circuits weren't re-identified ? At either end !!! That brings up a point, are you required to re-identify the white wire of a 240V circuit on a service upgrade and should you get tagged for it ?

Well, morally, I think that's certainly the best time, and the person changing the panel is the best one to do it.

Legally, I doubt it, unless some local amendment exists requiring such.

Functionally, how do you keep track of the 240 volt circuits otherwise? Why not a few wraps of tape as you disconnect?

 

[GoldDigger]

That brings up a point, are you required to re-identify the white wire of a 240V circuit on a service upgrade and should you get tagged for it ?

Subtle.
You are not modifying the wire or its routing in any way, and not touching the load end. But you are potentially making a new connection of that wire to a new breaker in a new enclosure. I do not think you would necessarily be required to change out the wire if that were an issue, but since all you have to do is re-identify it, I suspect you will find a lot of inspectors requiring that. Especially since it was not compliant with the code even when it was first installed unless the house is pre-1980.

 

[templdl]

I'm have been intrigued by OP and the string of posts. If I were the OP I would apologize to the inspector as it being an oversight, that you are completely aware of the color white represents and it is a rudimentary practice to re-identify it. I'm sure it would be agreed that the color white is commonly recognized as a grounded conductor and as it has been applied per the OP it certainly isn't grounded and poses to be a serious code violation and safety hazard. Getting zapped by a conductor that one understands to be grounded may not be a good thing.

 

[kwired]

Well, morally, I think that's certainly the best time, and the person changing the panel is the best one to do it.

Legally, I doubt it, unless some local amendment exists requiring such.

Functionally, how do you keep track of the 240 volt circuits otherwise? Why not a few wraps of tape as you disconnect?

Functionally, unless it is 12 or 14 AWG, most everything larger in most dwellings is 240 volts and easy to keep track of.

There is many a time when making an inspection that I will use my marker to re-identify a conductor when I feel the electrician simply forgot.

I once caught an inspector doing just that, and had to tell him that this particular water heater was only 120 volts and he was actually creating a code violation by doing that.