352.46 poll

352.46 poll

  • Yes. On any size PVC with any conductor

    Votes: 6 16.7%

  • Only on runs containg #4 or larger conductor

    Votes: 20 55.6%

  • Do not require on any

    Votes: 9 25.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
infinity said:
It seems that the requirement of 300.4(G) is more stringent than whether or not a TA requires any bushing for any size conductor. For an EMT connector no bushing is required when smaller than #4 conductors are used. For #4 and larger the requirement becomes more stringent.

IMO the same would apply to a TA. #4 and larger conductors require a "substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface" that would preclude the use of the edge of the TA to protect the conductors therefore a bushing would be required.
Click to expand...

Ok, there are 2 requirements to satisfy, 352.46 and 300.4(G).

352.46 requires PVC where it enters a box to be provided with a bushing or adapter that protects the wire from abrasion.

300.4(G) requires raceways containing #4 or larger conductors to be protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface.

Are you saying that a PVC male adpater protects wire from abrasion but does not provide a smoothy rounded insulating surface?

Chris
 
I think 352.46 is pretty clear in stating the need for a bushing. I don't read anything there that says its up to us to deciide if its silly or not. 300.4 is just another reference to protect from physical damage.
 
iaov said:
I think 352.46 is pretty clear in stating the need for a bushing. I don't read anything there that says its up to us to deciide if its silly or not. 300.4 is just another reference to protect from physical damage.
Click to expand...

The debate here is if an adapter is compliant.
 
Generally on EMT I like to put/see them on most all sizes whether it's #4 or not. I haven't nor have I seen one put on a plastic adapter. Maybe somebody should start a fire under a code panel if it needs to be clarified. :wink:
 
352.46 Bushings.
Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting, or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.

FPN: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.


It says "or adapter"
 
C3PO said:
352.46 Bushings.
Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting, or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.

FPN: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.


It says "or adapter"
Click to expand...

It says "or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion....."

Does a PVC male adapter provide protection from abrasion?

Chris
 
daleuger said:
Generally on EMT I like to put/see them on most all sizes whether it's #4 or not. I haven't nor have I seen one put on a plastic adapter. Maybe somebody should start a fire under a code panel if it needs to be clarified. :wink:
Click to expand...

Ya sold me.
 
unless the box, fitting, or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.
Click to expand...

Well there you go. Another section of code open to interpetation. :roll:

Since I have never seen any damage, I would say that it does provide protection.
 
benaround said:
Chris, Those requirements are from 300.4(G) ; #4 or larger, so we are back to 352.46 and

those words are not in that section. yes/no ?
Click to expand...

Correct, those words are not in 352.46. They do appear in 300.4(G).

What I am getting at is can a PVC male adapter provide abrasion protection without providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface?

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Correct, those words are not in 352.46. They do appear in 300.4(G).

What I am getting at is can a PVC male adapter provide abrasion protection without providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface?

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

300.4(G) is not part of this question and providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface

is not part of the answer. Without conductors #4 or larger 300.4(G) does not exist.

The only section left that is relavant to the original question is 352.46, a bushing or an

adapter shall be provided. Anything else is an opinion.
 
raider1 said:
Ok, there are 2 requirements to satisfy, 352.46 and 300.4(G).

352.46 requires PVC where it enters a box to be provided with a bushing or adapter that protects the wire from abrasion.

300.4(G) requires raceways containing #4 or larger conductors to be protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface.

Are you saying that a PVC male adpater protects wire from abrasion but does not provide a smoothy rounded insulating surface?

Chris
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you look at the edge of the TA it's far from smoothly rounded. Screw on a plastic bushing and then it becomes:

protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface.
Click to expand...
 
We all have opinions about this, but really do any of our opinions mean anything in this case?

If the inspectors opinion is the male adapter does not provide equivalent protection then a bushing is required and I see no amount of foot stomping that can change that.

The way 352.46 is written it is a judgment call and those judgment calls get to be made by the inspector, not the electrician.

To me this is definitely a pick your battles type issue, plastic bushing cost almost nothing. Putting them in after conductors are terminated (without sniping them ;) ) is costly.
 
In 2004 I contacted Carlon via e-mail. Mr David Kendall stated their Male terminal adapter is an adapter that provides a smmoth insulated surface to protect the conductors Which meet the NEC standards of 300.4 F. After I received that e-mail, As an inspector I no longer require them. He also said that their male terminal adapters are also rounded. I personally would still use them.

Bill Annett
 
billisa67 said:
In 2004 I contacted Carlon via e-mail. Mr David Kendall stated their Male terminal adapter is an adapter that provides a smmoth insulated surface to protect the conductors Which meet the NEC standards of 300.4 F. After I received that e-mail, As an inspector I no longer require them. He also said that their male terminal adapters are also rounded. I personally would still use them.

Bill Annett
Click to expand...

Just the other day I was inspecting a service and asked if the EC if he had his PB's on the MA's (he did not) and he showed me that the connector was actually chamferred(not sure of spelling). Upon seeing that I made a judgement call that the intent 352.46 had been satisfied, but I have always seen a MA will cause damage to a larger wire's insulation depending on installation technique. The interior edges of traditional MA's are rigid and sharp therefore I believe that protection is required, if they were all designed like this one it would be all o.k. (did not get the manuf.)

I see no issues whatsoever with box adapters as they come!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top