3PH disconnect with 1PH load centers

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iwire said:
:slaphead:

Thanks, I thought it was not allowed for the purposes of growing wheat.
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Well a general statement that sub metering is illegal is just plain wrong. You can measure power all you want, what you may not be able to do is sell it.
 
kwired said:
Well a general statement that sub metering is illegal is just plain wrong. You can measure power all you want, what you may not be able to do is sell it.
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Yes, you are correct we are free purchase and install expensive metering equipment that serves no purpose.

In addition, the Department of Public Utilities (DPU) has ruled that the resale of electricity and gas (i.e., submetering) is not permitted in Massachusetts. Their reason for this rule is that tenants should be direct customers of the gas or electric utility and thus receive all the consumer protections enforced by DPU.
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http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/.../hsg-electric-gas-submetering-memo-090513.doc
 
iwire said:
Yes, you are correct we are free purchase and install expensive metering equipment that serves no purpose.



http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/.../hsg-electric-gas-submetering-memo-090513.doc
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And I think the majority of places are similar, you need to be properly authorized or licensed utility to sell electric power, in most cases it is so they can collect applicable taxes and other fees and they don't want to miss a single watthour that has been billed. You can still measure where it is going for your own purposes. Even if you don't have tenants, you maybe have a plant and you just want to know what is being used by different portions of the plant.
 
kwired said:
And I think the majority of places are similar, you need to be properly authorized or licensed utility to sell electric power, in most cases it is so they can collect applicable taxes and other fees and they don't want to miss a single watthour that has been billed.
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The taxes would already have been collected from the utility. The link I provided stated the reason.

You can still measure where it is going for your own purposes.
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Fill me in, what purpose would a landlord have to sub meter dwelling unit tenants that were direct customers of the utility?

Even if you don't have tenants, you maybe have a plant and you just want to know what is being used by different portions of the plant.
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The topic has been dwelling units and if you read the post of mine you quoted I was specific in mentioning dwelling units.
 
kwired said:
Sub metering for the purpose of selling power is likely what is not allowed. If there still is a utility company meter ahead of the submetering, then the owner (where applicable) can't sell power to each tenant but can still monitor what they use for his own purposes. If utilities are included in the rent/lease and utilities increase over time then one can adjust the rent/lease fees.
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Actually, it is energy that is charged for.
 
kwired said:
And I think the majority of places are similar, you need to be properly authorized or licensed utility to sell electric power, in most cases it is so they can collect applicable taxes and other fees and they don't want to miss a single watthour that has been billed. You can still measure where it is going for your own purposes. Even if you don't have tenants, you maybe have a plant and you just want to know what is being used by different portions of the plant.
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My memory may be flawed:slaphead: but I think that in California, you can charge your customers the cost of the electricity, but you can't make a profit.
 
iwire said:
Not common here, sub metering of new dwelling units not allowed.

We would have something like this in the basement or on each floor with three phase in and single phase out.

meter-stack-miramon.jpg
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Yeah this is how it's done around here but no basements lol. Ours pretty much looks exactly like this picture. The only thing is its always single phase metering and single phase unit/house panels. the only three phase is for the elevator which has its own service. The start of this thread was about a system just like this pic where you would have single phase unit panels but the main is designed for a 3phase main.
 
ericstac said:
Yeah this is how it's done around here but no basements lol. Ours pretty much looks exactly like this picture. The only thing is its always single phase metering and single phase unit/house panels. the only three phase is for the elevator which has its own service. The start of this thread was about a system just like this pic where you would have single phase unit panels but the main is designed for a 3phase main.
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With dwellings as the "tenant's" the need for three phase in each tenant space is usually nil, you just balance the load by balancing the feeders across the three phases.

If you have commercial tenant spaces there may be more need for three phase in some of those spaces. Many of the modular meter centers have three phase main bus but have options on what may be available for output from branch units. One could even have combination of three phase and single phase branches from the meter center. Typically if only planning to use single phase branch outputs it will cost less to use sections with single phase meter socket and single phase breakers then to use three phase units and only utilize two poles on all of them.
 
kwired said:
Typically if only planning to use single phase branch outputs it will cost less to use sections with single phase meter socket and single phase breakers then to use three phase units and only utilize two poles on all of them.
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Yes this particular service is only supplying power to residential tenants with 120/208. So you are saying we would just use a 3phase main and then switch to single phase meter stacks?

You say to only use two poles on all of them but what about balancing the load?
 
ericstac said:
Yes this particular service is only supplying power to residential tenants with 120/208. So you are saying we would just use a 3phase main and then switch to single phase meter stacks?

You say to only use two poles on all of them but what about balancing the load?
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The meter stacks will have single phase meter sockets, spots for two pole breakers but will have three phase busing so it can be balanced.
 
ericstac said:
Yes this particular service is only supplying power to residential tenants with 120/208. So you are saying we would just use a 3phase main and then switch to single phase meter stacks?

You say to only use two poles on all of them but what about balancing the load?
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Use the poles like this: A+B+N for unit 1, B+C+N for unit 2, C+A+N for unit 3. Repeat and alternate the same way for the next set of units. As mentioned above there are meter centers that come as 3 phase, but the single phase sockets will alternate like this automatically.
 
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