6-12 rule in garage

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Clearly " finished" is painted/ decorated and isn't like most garages that are rough mudded over drywall. Many high end houses, paint and trim to a good standard and therefore may be viewed as potentially converted into office space etc.

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nhalsall said:
Clearly " finished" is painted/ decorated and isn't like most garages that are rough mudded over drywall. Many high end houses, paint and trim to a good standard and therefore may be viewed as potentially converted into office space etc.

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Office space. Define it. If it is for a commercial purpose, 6-12 does not enter the equation. Zoning codes may.

If the original intended use is a residential garage, that is what it is. No further discussion, finished with sheetrock, recessed lighting and A/C, doesn't matter.

My garage is finished. Heated. Pretty nice, and occasionally I sit there in the pickup with laptop going, finishing up paperwork. Does that make it an office?
 
ptonsparky said:
Office space. Define it. If it is for a commercial purpose, 6-12 does not enter the equation. Zoning codes may.

If the original intended use is a residential garage, that is what it is. No further discussion, finished with sheetrock, recessed lighting and A/C, doesn't matter.

My garage is finished. Heated. Pretty nice, and occasionally I sit there in the pickup with laptop going, finishing up paperwork. Does that make it an office?
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I agree, it's either a garage or it isn't. If it is then the garage rules apply, if it isn't then some other appropriate code rules would apply. If someone is enforcing "what ifs" then they're making up their own code.
 
ptonsparky said:
If the original intended use is a residential garage, that is what it is.
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That's it, it's a garage. A garage is not considered habitable living space.

Most subdivisions would not let you finish a garage and turn it into living space because garage parking is required. Even the codes for insulation for a garage are different than those for living space.
 
Wow. I didn't expected that this would generate such a debate. I completely agree ad a garage is a garage. Nothing else. I just don't see where the AHJ is getting it from that 6-12 apply. I guess I will find out tomorrow.
 
Nicksab said:
...I just don't see where the AHJ is getting it from...
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When you say the 'AHJ flagged you,' do you mean specifically that inspector? Perhaps we will find out that it's just him. In my experience, it usually is, and is resolved, usually and hopefully, amicably.

Sometimes we'd get different inspectors throughout a job depending on who had the day off. It's not rare for the next one to disagree on something; sometimes thankfully, and sometimes very frustratingly if you already made the changes.

I've installed mini-split ACs into several very nicely finished garages. And they are still garages.
 
Nicksab said:
Wow. I didn't expected that this would generate such a debate. I completely agree ad a garage is a garage. Nothing else. I just don't see where the AHJ is getting it from that 6-12 apply. I guess I will find out tomorrow.
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I can show you a few "man cave" garages that are nicer/cleaner then some living rooms. Still a garage IMO if intended to be able to park a vehicle in there.
 
kwired said:
I can show you a few "man cave" garages that are nicer/cleaner ...
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I've had the privilege of working in some of the very nicest man caves ... the R&D garages of the Big 3.

The architects started with an aisle wide enough for two-way traffic, stalls with ample working room, cabinets & countertops at each end and clear space throughout -- no pillars. Those design criteria led to about 100-foot clear-span roof trusses. The ceiling elevation was established to accommodate a 14-foot Hy-Cube truck on a lift, about 25 feet. Double the lighting level of most garages, air conditioning with ample air exchange (and an exhauster at each stall) a lift in every other stall, overhead cranes, a four-point weighing scale, white epoxy enamel on the floor and plenty of 120- and 480-volt receptacles. You can accomplish a lot in a place like that.

14352150983_f17b93f8e7_b.jpg


Note to headhunters, personnel agents, security staff, web crawlers, private investigators and background checkers: This photograph was grabbed off the 'net; I did not take a personal camera into the facility and photograph it myself.
 
Question for Sierrasparky: With regard to your comment "As of the 1st of this year You are required to install 1 outlet per car space and also 1 inch conduit to a panel with 2 pole breaker space for future car charging," is this a 2017 NEC requirement or a local one in your jurisdiction, city, state? (It does sound like a good idea given the direction automotive industry.)
 
Marty Lustig said:
Question for Sierrasparky: With regard to your comment "As of the 1st of this year You are required to install 1 outlet per car space and also 1 inch conduit to a panel with 2 pole breaker space for future car charging," is this a 2017 NEC requirement or a local one in your jurisdiction, city, state? (It does sound like a good idea given the direction automotive industry.)
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1 outlet per car space I am pretty certain is a 2017 NEC requirement, 1 inch conduit is likely a local requirement.

FWIW both those requirements are design issues and don't belong in NEC or local amendments:(
 
Marty Lustig said:
Question for Sierrasparky: With regard to your comment "As of the 1st of this year You are required to install 1 outlet per car space and also 1 inch conduit to a panel with 2 pole breaker space for future car charging," is this a 2017 NEC requirement or a local one in your jurisdiction, city, state? (It does sound like a good idea given the direction automotive industry.)
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As per CEC 2016 section :
210.52(G)(1)Garages. In each attached garage and in each detached garage with electric power. The branch circuit supplying this receptacle(s) shall not supply outlets outside of the garage. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for
each car space.

EV 1 inch conduit as per the CA GREEN code ( Yes I said GREEEEEEN code:sick:)

4.106.4 Electric vehicle (EV) charging for new construction.
New construction shall comply with Sections 4.106.4.1
and 4.106.4.2 to facilitate future installation and use of EV
chargers. Electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE) shall be
installed in accordance with the California Electrical Code,
Article 625.
Exceptions: On a case-by-case basis, where the local
enforcing agency has determined EV charging and infrastructure
are not feasible based upon one or more of the
following conditions:
1. Where there is no commercial power supply.
2. Where there is evidence substantiating that meeting
the requirements will alter the local utility infrastructure
design requirements on the utility side of
the meter so as to increase the utility side cost to the
homeowner or the developer by more than $400.00
per dwelling unit.
4.106.4.1 New one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses
with attached private garages. For each dwelling
unit, install a listed raceway to accommodate a dedicated
208/240-volt branch circuit. The raceway shall not be less
than trade size 1 (nominal 1-inch inside diameter). The
raceway shall originate at the main service or subpanel and
shall terminate into a listed cabinet, box or other enclosure
in close proximity to the proposed location of an EV charger.
Raceways are required to be continuous at enclosed,
inaccessible or concealed areas and spaces. The service
panel and/or subpanel shall provide capacity to install a
40-ampere minimum dedicated branch circuit and space(s)
reserved to permit installation of a branch circuit overcurrent
protective device.
 
Just to update

I spoke with the chief of the building department. Basically he told me that the 6-12 rule does not apply to garage. Obviously! And the AHJ that came on site must have been confused by the garage being insulated and drywalled up. He also told me that they were having issue with that particular AHJ making up rules.

Anyway, I am glad that red flag got removed
 
Nicksab said:
Just to update

I spoke with the chief of the building department. Basically he told me that the 6-12 rule does not apply to garage. Obviously! And the AHJ that came on site must have been confused by the garage being insulated and drywalled up. He also told me that they were having issue with that particular AHJ making up rules.

Anyway, I am glad that red flag got removed
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Did you install those other measures I showed?

No Hard feelings if you did not.
 
Nicksab said:
Just to update

I spoke with the chief of the building department. Basically he told me that the 6-12 rule does not apply to garage. Obviously! And the AHJ that came on site must have been confused by the garage being insulated and drywalled up. He also told me that they were having issue with that particular AHJ making up rules.

Anyway, I am glad that red flag got removed
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Exactly why some of us tell those that complain about an inspector that seems to be making up their own code to appeal to a supervisor or at least present code sections to that inspector that show what you think should be right, otherwise they just get used to people doing what they say (and expect them to comply with their wishes) even if they are wrong.
 
Nicksab said:
Just to update

I spoke with the chief of the building department. Basically he told me that the 6-12 rule does not apply to garage. Obviously! And the AHJ that came on site must have been confused by the garage being insulated and drywalled up. He also told me that they were having issue with that particular AHJ making up rules.

Anyway, I am glad that red flag got removed
Click to expand...

kwired said:
Exactly why some of us tell those that complain about an inspector that seems to be making up their own code to appeal to a supervisor or at least present code sections to that inspector that show what you think should be right, otherwise they just get used to people doing what they say (and expect them to comply with their wishes) even if they are wrong.
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Exactly!

The problem is when the AHJ or inspector refuses to listen and stands by his claim unsubstantiated. You have this case that wound up wasting the time of contractor. In other cases you have a contractor giving in to these frivolous claims in order to save time and piss off the inspector. I think most contractors are afraid of questioning a inspector as the inspector usually represents unlimited power.:rant:
 
Sierrasparky said:
Exactly!

The problem is when the AHJ or inspector refuses to listen and stands by his claim unsubstantiated. You have this case that wound up wasting the time of contractor. In other cases you have a contractor giving in to these frivolous claims in order to save time and piss off the inspector. I think most contractors are afraid of questioning a inspector as the inspector usually represents unlimited power.:rant:
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Their power is limited. It becomes unlimited when contractors allow them to 'get away with it'.
 
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