# 6 solid ground

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krussell@scs-usa.com

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I was turned down on a meter can for 400 amp service due to ground wire size.
I have 400 amp service and I was rejected because of the ground from the meter can to the 8' grounding rod was a # 6, solid, bare ground wire with no splices. I think 250 .66 (a) applies.

Any thoughts on a reason it wouldn't?


I look forward to hearing from you.

Kirk
 
It only has to be #6, no matter how big your service is, with one possible exception. You need to jump up to #4 if it runs by itself in a place where it might be subject to physical damage. Could that be what their beef was?
 
stickboy1375 said:
What does that have to do with the OP's question?
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Because he may have gotten knocked down for having a metalic water main and he didnt run a ground wire to it or ran an undersized ground wire for a 400A service. 6 doesnt cut it to the water main.
 
quogueelectric said:
Because he may have gotten knocked down for having a metalic water main and he didnt run a ground wire to it or ran an undersized ground wire for a 400A service. 6 doesnt cut it to the water main.
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Thinking the same....
 
Most AHJs in my area require #4 if it's "subject to physical damage" (meaning 'exposed). So I rarely get to install 6.
 
quogueelectric said:
Because he may have gotten knocked down for having a metalic water main and he didnt run a ground wire to it or ran an undersized ground wire for a 400A service. 6 doesnt cut it to the water main.
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Oh, I guess anything is possible, but after re-reading the ops question I didnt bother guessing at anything else but what he asked.
 
Just reread the OP:

krussell@scs-usa.com said:
....was rejected because of the ground from the meter can to the 8' grounding rod .....
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I've always landed the grounds in the panel with the first point of disconnect. In the meter is a no-no here.
 
480sparky said:
Most AHJs in my area require #4 if it's "subject to physical damage" (meaning 'exposed). So I rarely get to install 6.
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Ah yes - I too get the same interpetation #6 and below needs protection, or is it #6 and above that doesn't?

Better look....

(B) Securing and Protection from Physical Damage. A grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it is carried. A 4 AWG copper or aluminum or larger conductor shall be protected if exposed to severe physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection where it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor. Grounding conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor.[/QUOTE]

Hard to read aint it????
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krussell@scs-usa.com said:
I was turned down on a meter can for 400 amp service due to ground wire size.
I have 400 amp service and I was rejected because of the ground from the meter can to the 8' grounding rod was a # 6, solid, bare ground wire with no splices. I think 250 .66 (a) applies.
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You're right and the inspector is wrong if you truly have installed the GEC as per 250-66(A) & 250-64(B). The inspector needs to clarify the violation.

I've heard if you have ALL the criteria of 250-52(A)(1) met then you must use the water pipe as your electrode, honestly I still do not find anything to substantiate this, does code really support this? I do understand if the water pipe is used as an electrode it must be supplemented.
 
480sparky said:
Just reread the OP:



I've always landed the grounds in the panel with the first point of disconnect. In the meter is a no-no here.
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Do you have photos of how you do this? Just curious.

Here: 400 Amp service, #4 bare to (2) ground rods, ground wire goes to meter base in 1/2" pvc, ground wire from panel to water main - if copper plumbing.
 
BackInTheHabit said:
Do you have photos of how you do this? Just curious.

Here: 400 Amp service, #4 bare to (2) ground rods, ground wire goes to meter base in 1/2" pvc, ground wire from panel to water main - if copper plumbing.
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What? Land the bare wires in the service panel?

groundwire1.jpg



groundwire2.jpg

This is a simple 200a basement service. Both grounds are run into the panel, and one of them through the grounding bushing (also required here). Then both are landed on the neutral bar... in this case, one next to the service neutral and the other on the left bar.
 
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e57 said:
A 4 AWG copper or aluminum or larger conductor shall be protected if exposed to severe physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection where it is securely fastened to the construction...Hard to read aint it????
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250-64(B) is terribly worded! #4 or larger must be exposed to severe damage to require protection. #6 must be simply free from [some] damage to require protection. You'd think they'd at least be the other way around but either way it's a word jumble!!
 
480sparky said:
What? Land the bare wires in the service panel?
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What are you calling the service panel? The meter base or the panel itself?

400 Amp service, #4 bare to (2) ground rods, ground wire goes to meter base in 1/2" pvc

Inside house - (2) 200 amp panels, bare #6 from each panel to water main copper pipe

EGCExample.jpg
 
BackInTheHabit said:
What are you calling the service panel? The meter base or the panel itself?

400 Amp service, #4 bare to (2) ground rods, ground wire goes to meter base in 1/2" pvc

Inside house - (2) 200 amp panels, bare #6 from each panel to water main copper pipe
Click to expand...

I should have used 'first point of disconnect', so it would be the panel.
 
480sparky said:
What? Land the bare wires in the service panel?
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If this is your first disconnect means Yes. If it is a 400 amp with no trans s like twin 200A resi panels we are not allowed to go higher than 320 here where a#2 bare is run from the water main to one panel and the second panel must be bugged to the #2 outside of the panel.
 
480sparky said:
What? Land the bare wires in the service panel?

groundwire1.jpg



groundwire2.jpg

This is a simple 200a basement service. Both grounds are run into the panel, and one of them through the grounding bushing (also required here). Then both are landed on the neutral bar... in this case, one next to the service neutral and the other on the left bar.
Click to expand...

Nice panel cut in!

I can see what you're saying since it looks like you are using emt to the panel. Is that a requirement in your area?

In the photos I posted above the panels and the meter are back-to-back. 2" pvc through the wall to the back of each panel.
 
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