# 6 solid ground

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A 400 amp service here would be a 400a meter with double lugs on the house side. Two 200a panels would be fed with 2/0s from the meter. Both ground wires (rods & water line) go to the panels, not the meter socket. The panels would be the same as in my earlier photos.
 
In California we don't use the water as an electrode because it does not meet the criteria of 250-52(A)(1), 10' long, bonded around meters...But it is bonded 250-104. The CCE (ufer) is most common and always low resistance.
The #6 for rods and #4 for ufer (250-66(A) & (B)) are just fine for their purpose (250-4(A)(1) even for 2000A 480V service.
 
480sparky said:
A 400 amp service here would be a 400a meter with double lugs on the house side. Two 200a panels would be fed with 2/0s from the meter. Both ground wires (rods & water line) go to the panels, not the meter socket. The panels would be the same as in my earlier photos.
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Sounds like the only difference is that you are required to take your ground rod wire straight to your panel, while ours go to the meter base.

Interesting.
 
BackInTheHabit said:
Sounds like the only difference is that you are required to take your ground rod wire straight to your panel, while ours go to the meter base.Interesting.
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PG&E (utility) does not want it behind their seal so we ground at the service disconnect. I understand differant utilities have preferances but we just have to go with 250-24(A)(1)

1113854601_2.jpg
 
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tryinghard said:
PG&E (utility) does not want it behind their seal so we ground at the service disconnect. I understand differant utilities have preferances but we just have to go with 250-24(A)(1)
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Thanks for the info.

Our POCO (KU) doesn't mind it in the meter base. Electricians have permission to cut tag and pull meter if necessary.
 
tryinghard said:
PG&E (utility) does not want it behind their seal so we ground at the service disconnect. I understand differant utilities have preferances but we just have to go with 250-24(A)(1)

1113854601_2.jpg
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Interesting even more! I've never seen grounds hooked to the service drop like #1 in the pix.
 
480sparky said:
Interesting even more! I've never seen grounds hooked to the service drop like #1 in the pix.
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Then you've never seen an Ag CD pole??

#1 in that graphic is very typical of how a central distribution pole is connected to the ground rods in an agricultural installation.
 
mdshunk said:
Then you've never seen an Ag CD pole??

#1 in that graphic is very typical of how a central distribution pole is connected to the ground rods in an agricultural installation.
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Now here. The pole also contains the meter & disco, so the grounds never go any higher than those.
 
480sparky said:
Now here. The pole also contains the meter & disco, so the grounds never go any higher than those.
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I see. It is more typical here to have the meter on the CD pole just go "down" then "back up", then a 3-wire drop to every building. Ground rods at the CD pole, and even more at each building. I guess we get away with not having a disconnect on the pole because the CD pole is typically utility owned. When we go underground to each building, then we typically have a NEMA 3R disconnect for each underground feeder in a big MDP mounted on a pedestal type arrangement right next to the utility owned pole. It's interesting to learn how the same job is done in different areas.
 
tryinghard said:
In California we don't use the water as an electrode because it does not meet the criteria of 250-52(A)(1), 10' long, bonded around meters...But it is bonded 250-104. The CCE (ufer) is most common and always low resistance.
The #6 for rods and #4 for ufer (250-66(A) & (B)) are just fine for their purpose (250-4(A)(1) even for 2000A 480V service.
Click to expand...

In my area (my little corner of the state) we do - since all water is metallic 'round here - kind of makes it mandatory. And even here in a dense city it is rare for it to be shorter than 10' buried before the meter. In any building with a set back it is definitely over 10', and most without the building set beck on the property the sidewalks are wider than 10'... (Water meter - bonded or not - is usually at the curb.) Rods of course... Ufer only required with any new foundation longer than 20'.

A #6 exposed outside of the wall outside would need to be in metallic conduit... And so would #4 if in a public accessible area - afraid the junkies might severly damage it...:rolleyes: i.e. steal it!

Also on the subject of metallic - all service conductors are in RMC above grade locally... Or PVC below, and then exit grade in RMC... (POCO rules) POCO will also not allow ANY grounding conductor in their meter section - hence the RMC, which needs to be bonded to the can, or grounding lock-nut. Neutral also bonded to the can... All GEC's go to the main...

Also cant use the little 1/4" hole for the GEC - needs to be in a clamp - and the clamp bonded or use grounding lock-nut... Been like that since all the inspectors took the same grounding seminar 'bout 8 years ago....
 
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480sparky said:
A 400 amp service here would be a 400a meter with double lugs on the house side. Two 200a panels would be fed with 2/0s from the meter. Both ground wires (rods & water line) go to the panels, not the meter socket. The panels would be the same as in my earlier photos.
Click to expand...

The 2008 ,I believe, will not allow that anymore. Some areas around here have always required 3/0

Nec 2008 art. 310.15(B)(6) said:
120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For individual dwelling units of one-family, two-family, and multifamily dwellings, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase service-entrance conductors, service-lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to each dwelling unit and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section, the main power feeder shall be the feeder between the main disconnect and the panelboard that supplies, either by branch circuits or by feeders, or both, all loads that are part or associated with the dwelling unit. The feeder conductors to a dwelling unit shall not be required to have an allowable ampacity rating greater than their service-entrance conductors. The grounded conductor shall be permitted to be smaller than the ungrounded conductors, provided the requirements of 215.2, 220.61, and 230.42 are met.
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Dennis Alwon said:
The 2008 ,I believe, will not allow that anymore. Some areas around here have always required 3/0
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Actually that was never really permitted by the NEC and the 2008 just clears it up. :cool:
 
back to OP

back to OP

Kirk,
Did you install it in any type conduit ?
 
stickboy1375 said:
I think he lost interest after post #3.... :grin:
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:grin:

Post 1 went up about 9:45 PM last night, the OPs last activity was 10:20 PM last night.

Not everyone lives here. :grin:
 
e57 said:
In my area (my little corner of the state) we do - since all water is metallic 'round here - kind of makes it mandatory. And even here in a dense city it is rare for it to be shorter than 10' buried before the meter. In any building with a set back it is definitely over 10', and most without the building set beck on the property the sidewalks are wider than 10'... (Water meter - bonded or not - is usually at the curb.) Rods of course... Ufer only required with any new foundation longer than 20'.

A #6 exposed outside of the wall outside would need to be in metallic conduit... And so would #4 if in a public accessible area - afraid the junkies might severly damage it...:rolleyes: i.e. steal it!...
Click to expand...

e57,

Thanks for your input, I can see why the GEC's need to be protected in the city.
 
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