600 amp service install

infinity said:
Thanks for poriving that. You were correct after all. POCO's have been known for some dumb requirements. :rolleyes:
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Problem is, is that it’s an existing service it’ll be an upgrade from 400 to 600 and the current GE is the building steel. It’s a paved road no ground rod currently. And yea the GEC from building steel is like a #4 CU. But if there’s a ground rod the largest size necessary is #6 that’s why they want a ground rod and the meter enclosure bonded. Idk seems odd. And I would keep my building steel electrode as well going to the main disconnect??
 
Therealcrt said:
Problem is, is that it’s an existing service it’ll be an upgrade from 400 to 600 and the current GE is the building steel. It’s a paved road no ground rod currently. And yea the GEC from building steel is like a #4 CU. But if there’s a ground rod the largest size necessary is #6 that’s why they want a ground rod and the meter enclosure bonded. Idk seems odd. And I would keep my building steel electrode as well going to the main disconnect??
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The problem is they are missing the fact that the NEC requires GEC's to be connected to the service Grounded Conductor, not an enclosure. However in your case you say the existing GEC is landed in the Main and I assume that's where the main bonding jumper is as well so all is fine.
 
roger said:
The problem is they are missing the fact that the NEC requires GEC's to be connected to the service Grounded Conductor, not an enclosure. However in your case you say the existing GEC is landed in the Main and I assume that's where the main bonding jumper is as well so all is fine.
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Well yea all is fine until they require the meter can to have the GEC to it as well per the drawings I showed
 
You guys wanna know something even crazier that I just found out my power company does not allow us to put bonding bushings on any nipple on their CT meter enclosure or the CT cabinet itself even if those raceways contain service conductors the only bonding bushing that we put on a metal raceway that contains service conductors is from the low side of the CT to our main disconnect and that bonding bushing has to be inside of our main disconnect, not inside of the CT cabinet
 
roger said:
Yeah, if I were an inspector I would reject it per 250.50 unless the meter GEC was connected to the Service Grounded Conductor
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Why would you fail it for that code reference? I just states that all electrodes need to be bonded together which they are inside of the gutter but I noticed I just took the gutter cover off that the previous electrician bonded the neutral to the ground bar inside the gutter that also has the other grounding electrode bonding jumpers connected to the ground bar. Is that permissible or does the neutral have to be bonded to the electrode at the main disconnect not in a trough because it is not bonded at the main disconnect
 
Therealcrt said:
Why would you fail it for that code reference? I just states that all electrodes need to be bonded together which they are inside of the gutter but I noticed I just took the gutter cover off that the previous electrician bonded the neutral to the ground bar inside the gutter that also has the other grounding electrode bonding jumpers connected to the ground bar. Is that permissible or does the neutral have to be bonded to the electrode at the main disconnect not in a trough because it is not bonded at the main disconnect
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For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
 
roger said:
For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
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The GEC is connected to a terminal Bar and then a jumper is connected to the service neutral. That isn’t permitted?
 
roger said:
For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
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Because also that same code reference 250.24 A 4 basically summarizes to

If a main bonding jumper that connects the service neutral to an equipment grounding bar then it is permitted to run The grounding electrode conductor to that grounding bar but this case seems a little different since they didn’t bond the service neutral to the ground via A service neutral bar or bus they bonded it to the service neutral in the gutter via Nimbus connector
 
What is existing is not the issue, the issue is the GEC shown to the meter. Does that GEC connect to the service neutral.
 
roger said:
What is existing is not the issue, the issue is the GEC shown to the meter. Does that GEC connect to the service neutral.
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Yes, in a way, been grounding, electrode connected to the ground rod goes directly to the meter enclosure. There’s also another rounding electrode conductor from the ground rod that goes to the terminal bar in the gutter, which connects to the service neutral so yes, technically they are, but not under a terminal just by the ground rod connection
 
roger said:
Then all's well
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So it’s OK to land the grounding electrode on a ground bar inside of the gutter and run a jumper from the ground bar to the service neutral inside the gutter and then run a jumper from the gutter to my main disconnect to the ground bar that’s in it because I wouldn’t bond the service neutral to the enclosure at my main disconnect. If it’s already bonded inside the gutter I would just need to run a jumper from that ground bar that’s in the gutter to the main disconnect enclosure
 
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