600 amp service install

infinity said:
Thanks for poriving that. You were correct after all. POCO's have been known for some dumb requirements. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Problem is, is that it’s an existing service it’ll be an upgrade from 400 to 600 and the current GE is the building steel. It’s a paved road no ground rod currently. And yea the GEC from building steel is like a #4 CU. But if there’s a ground rod the largest size necessary is #6 that’s why they want a ground rod and the meter enclosure bonded. Idk seems odd. And I would keep my building steel electrode as well going to the main disconnect??
 
Therealcrt said:
Problem is, is that it’s an existing service it’ll be an upgrade from 400 to 600 and the current GE is the building steel. It’s a paved road no ground rod currently. And yea the GEC from building steel is like a #4 CU. But if there’s a ground rod the largest size necessary is #6 that’s why they want a ground rod and the meter enclosure bonded. Idk seems odd. And I would keep my building steel electrode as well going to the main disconnect??
Click to expand...
The problem is they are missing the fact that the NEC requires GEC's to be connected to the service Grounded Conductor, not an enclosure. However in your case you say the existing GEC is landed in the Main and I assume that's where the main bonding jumper is as well so all is fine.
 
roger said:
The problem is they are missing the fact that the NEC requires GEC's to be connected to the service Grounded Conductor, not an enclosure. However in your case you say the existing GEC is landed in the Main and I assume that's where the main bonding jumper is as well so all is fine.
Click to expand...
Well yea all is fine until they require the meter can to have the GEC to it as well per the drawings I showed
 
You guys wanna know something even crazier that I just found out my power company does not allow us to put bonding bushings on any nipple on their CT meter enclosure or the CT cabinet itself even if those raceways contain service conductors the only bonding bushing that we put on a metal raceway that contains service conductors is from the low side of the CT to our main disconnect and that bonding bushing has to be inside of our main disconnect, not inside of the CT cabinet
 
roger said:
Yeah, if I were an inspector I would reject it per 250.50 unless the meter GEC was connected to the Service Grounded Conductor
Click to expand...
Why would you fail it for that code reference? I just states that all electrodes need to be bonded together which they are inside of the gutter but I noticed I just took the gutter cover off that the previous electrician bonded the neutral to the ground bar inside the gutter that also has the other grounding electrode bonding jumpers connected to the ground bar. Is that permissible or does the neutral have to be bonded to the electrode at the main disconnect not in a trough because it is not bonded at the main disconnect
 
Therealcrt said:
Why would you fail it for that code reference? I just states that all electrodes need to be bonded together which they are inside of the gutter but I noticed I just took the gutter cover off that the previous electrician bonded the neutral to the ground bar inside the gutter that also has the other grounding electrode bonding jumpers connected to the ground bar. Is that permissible or does the neutral have to be bonded to the electrode at the main disconnect not in a trough because it is not bonded at the main disconnect
Click to expand...
For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
 
roger said:
For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
Click to expand...
The GEC is connected to a terminal Bar and then a jumper is connected to the service neutral. That isn’t permitted?
 
roger said:
For your first question.250.50 states

"All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are
present at each building or structure served shall be bonded
together"

Which would include the rod at the CT meter. The way it is described by the utility appears to want it as a stand alone item.

For the second part.

The GEC in the gutter would have to bond directly to the service neutral per 250.24

"
(A) System Grounding Connections. A premises wiring
system supplied by a grounded ac service shall have a
grounding electrode conductor connected to the grounded
service conductor, at each service, in accordance with
250.24(A)(1) through (A)(5)."


"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means."

Metal raceways or enclosures are not suitable for providing continuity for the connection.
Click to expand...
Because also that same code reference 250.24 A 4 basically summarizes to

If a main bonding jumper that connects the service neutral to an equipment grounding bar then it is permitted to run The grounding electrode conductor to that grounding bar but this case seems a little different since they didn’t bond the service neutral to the ground via A service neutral bar or bus they bonded it to the service neutral in the gutter via Nimbus connector
 
roger said:
What is existing is not the issue, the issue is the GEC shown to the meter. Does that GEC connect to the service neutral.
Click to expand...
Yes, in a way, been grounding, electrode connected to the ground rod goes directly to the meter enclosure. There’s also another rounding electrode conductor from the ground rod that goes to the terminal bar in the gutter, which connects to the service neutral so yes, technically they are, but not under a terminal just by the ground rod connection
 
roger said:
Then all's well
Click to expand...
So it’s OK to land the grounding electrode on a ground bar inside of the gutter and run a jumper from the ground bar to the service neutral inside the gutter and then run a jumper from the gutter to my main disconnect to the ground bar that’s in it because I wouldn’t bond the service neutral to the enclosure at my main disconnect. If it’s already bonded inside the gutter I would just need to run a jumper from that ground bar that’s in the gutter to the main disconnect enclosure
 
You have a 600A service with a CT can, a CT meter to the side then, service wireway and several service disconnects off the wireway?
On the line side of a service disconnect the neutral bonds all the exposed metal parts, meter can, the wireway and the service disconnects etc.
All the grounding electrodes that are present should be bonded together at a common location, like the ground bar you mention in the wireway, the neutral in the wireway is connected to that ground bar in some way.

Therealcrt said:
I know that and I understand that, but the neutral isn’t bonded to the ground at the first means of disconnect. It’s bonded at the gutter.
Click to expand...

My take on that is 250.64(D)(3) no additional bonding wires would need to run to service disconnects, but the neutral would be bonded to the service disconnect enclosure.
 
pipe_bender said:
You have a 600A service with a CT can, a CT meter to the side then, service wireway and several service disconnects off the wireway?
On the line side of a service disconnect the neutral bonds all the exposed metal parts, meter can, the wireway and the service disconnects etc.
All the grounding electrodes that are present should be bonded together at a common location, like the ground bar you mention in the wireway, the neutral in the wireway is connected to that ground bar in some way.



My take on that is 250.64(D)(3) no additional bonding wires would need to run to service disconnects, but the neutral would be bonded to the service disconnect enclosure.
Click to expand...

I have just 1 disconnect 600a that will service 1 panel in a tenant space. But anyways all of this is existing I’m just upgrading everything from 400 to 600 so I’m going to match everything as is. And put 1 bonding bushing inside my main disconnect on the service side rigid conduit and bond it to the enclosure and keep that bonding jumper from the ground bar in the gutter to my main disconnect and bond it to the main disconnect enclosure and be done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top