kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Tell them to build their home in some state that still allows use of gas.
Others are correct to an extent that POCO will still supply you with #2 AL and a 25 kVA transformer.
600A Residential panel
- Thread starter Duneit
- Start date
Others are correct to an extent that POCO will still supply you with #2 AL and a 25 kVA transformer.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Load calculations are required and are used to determine the service size. If the engineer came up with 600 amp service then unless they're going to redesign with less load you're stuck with the 600 amp service. If the POCO cannot provide enough power for this 600 amp service then they'll need to upgrade their infrastructure. Unfortunately someone has to pay for it.
The real issue is that the government of your state no longer wants new homes to be using fossil fuels.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
NEC calcs are extremely conservative, often by a factor of 2.5. POCO's typically don't even bother looking at those NEC calcs and do their own. I'm not trying to argue, I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of this project, just that everywhere I have worked the POCO doesn't care about what NEC service or main breaker size you come up with. I just find it hard to believe that they say they can't serve one house, unless that line was already completely maxed out. Or maybe there's a whole bunch of other houses or loads being added about the same time, who knows.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
You can’t do that anymore, the service disconnects have to be in separate enclosures now.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Not so familiar with switchgear, but wouldn't each breaker space generally be in a separate compartment?
Cheers, Wayne
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
600 amp service possibly has some room for future load. If anything might simply be the actual load calculation is say 402 amps and since you are going to need 600 amp frame fuse or breaker regardless why not just go with 600 amps even though 450 and 500 are standard sizes of OCPD's.
And if the actual load calculation is 402, I wouldn't expect POCO to necessarily go any larger than whatever they determine can handle 402 amps with both conductors and transformer. They will look into peak demand, duration of such peaks, as well as factor in any possible "cool down" periods in their decisions, NEC doesn't have too much that will allow use of those factors in many instances.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Most if not all CA utilities base the service size on the ampacity of the termination section not breaker size. They will not size their conductors or transformer based on this but will require all conduits, pull boxes, transformer pads/vaults to be sized to handle the service size. They do this so when future loads are added they can easily upgrade conductors and transformer without any excavation/site work.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
IIRC you can have multiple service disconnects in a switchboard, but they have to be in different vertical sections of the gear.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
All the the 400 amp (class 320) residential services I have installed the past few years have taken close to 2 years from application date until energized.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Anyone know what tariffs usually say about this? I imagine POCO's are legally required to supply electricity with fixed and established connection costs - but probably with limits. I have delt with like extensions of course which have fixed and established costs, but never had a POCO say we can't supply that load. I imagine them being able to supply the load is on them, to some point anyway.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
How does that go over with lending companies that typically want the construction loan closed out within about a year and permanent mortgage in effect by then?
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Do you know why? What part of the process takes so long? Engineering? Line crew scheduling? Material procurement?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Wasn't it hard to acquire 320 class meter sockets for a while there, maybe still is for some?
I know at one time even 200 amp meter sockets weren't readily available.
Up here in the PNW where power flows cheap a 600A service is not uncommon. Its just a 100kva pad mount 4" PVC lateral CT can and three pipes to three 200A panels.
I'd say 800A is less common, and above 800A is rare (but I have done one recently) for a SFD.
The delay is usually the CT metering gear.
I'd say 800A is less common, and above 800A is rare (but I have done one recently) for a SFD.
The delay is usually the CT metering gear.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Engineering can easily take a year. Once that in done the property owner can install the underground sub structures unless they contract with the utility to install. If any portion of the work is in public right away the utility will need to get public works permits with can take 1-2 months. After all underground work is 100% complete it has been taking 6 month to get wire pulled.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
No idea but most of the custom homes I get involved with don't have construction loans. I'm in Silicone Valley = Cash $$$
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
That's ridiculous and with the new mandates one can imagine that it will only get worse.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
And you would think those customers that they know have the $$$ would get at least some preferential treatment by the POCO's to be moved up higher on their construction lists. Here in NE with public power that won't really happen but where there is investor owned POCO's you would think it would. Of course larger industries with even higher energy use probably always remain at the top of such lists.
For new builds I dont remember gas line upgrades being any quicker. The worst is water and septic systems. Years ago there was an entire subdivision built and powered on, but whoops no water system.
I think when people buy vacant land for a 'steal' what they dont get is the cost of laying infrastructure.
I think when people buy vacant land for a 'steal' what they dont get is the cost of laying infrastructure.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
It wouldn't be a steal if it had that infrastructure
Like farm ground around here - if it has irrigation on it (and more recently rights to use the water has crept into the picture) it's worth more than same acres and similar soil conditions with no irrigation.