600A Residential panel

Duneit said:
The POCO is charging the owner $tens of thousands to upgrade their infrastructure and it could take a year with the nationwide transformer shortage.
Click to expand...
Tell them to build their home in some state that still allows use of gas. :)

Others are correct to an extent that POCO will still supply you with #2 AL and a 25 kVA transformer.
 
Duneit said:
You must have a higher degree of education than the electrical engineer who performed the calculations. I will not go against what an engineer says to try and save a buck. If I do it to specifications, and there is a problem, the engineer has to answer not me.
Click to expand...
Load calculations are required and are used to determine the service size. If the engineer came up with 600 amp service then unless they're going to redesign with less load you're stuck with the 600 amp service. If the POCO cannot provide enough power for this 600 amp service then they'll need to upgrade their infrastructure. Unfortunately someone has to pay for it.

The real issue is that the government of your state no longer wants new homes to be using fossil fuels.
 
Duneit said:
You must have a higher degree of education than the electrical engineer who performed the calculations. I will not go against what an engineer says to try and save a buck. If I do it to specifications, and there is a problem, the engineer has to answer not me.
Click to expand...
NEC calcs are extremely conservative, often by a factor of 2.5. POCO's typically don't even bother looking at those NEC calcs and do their own. I'm not trying to argue, I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of this project, just that everywhere I have worked the POCO doesn't care about what NEC service or main breaker size you come up with. I just find it hard to believe that they say they can't serve one house, unless that line was already completely maxed out. Or maybe there's a whole bunch of other houses or loads being added about the same time, who knows.
 
acrwc10 said:
put is an 800 amp switchgear with only 6 breaker spaces and no main breaker, they can figure out what to feed it with. If you were upgrading from 100 to 200 amps they would be telling you "we need to upgrade the transformer, that will take 9 moths to a year".
Click to expand...
You can’t do that anymore, the service disconnects have to be in separate enclosures now.
 
infinity said:
Load calculations are required and are used to determine the service size. If the engineer came up with 600 amp service then unless they're going to redesign with less load you're stuck with the 600 amp service. If the POCO cannot provide enough power for this 600 amp service then they'll need to upgrade their infrastructure. Unfortunately someone has to pay for it.

The real issue is that the government of your state no longer wants new homes to be using fossil fuels.
Click to expand...
600 amp service possibly has some room for future load. If anything might simply be the actual load calculation is say 402 amps and since you are going to need 600 amp frame fuse or breaker regardless why not just go with 600 amps even though 450 and 500 are standard sizes of OCPD's.

And if the actual load calculation is 402, I wouldn't expect POCO to necessarily go any larger than whatever they determine can handle 402 amps with both conductors and transformer. They will look into peak demand, duration of such peaks, as well as factor in any possible "cool down" periods in their decisions, NEC doesn't have too much that will allow use of those factors in many instances.
 
acrwc10 said:
put is an 800 amp switchgear with only 6 breaker spaces and no main breaker, they can figure out what to feed it with. If you were upgrading from 100 to 200 amps they would be telling you "we need to upgrade the transformer, that will take 9 moths to a year".
Click to expand...
Most if not all CA utilities base the service size on the ampacity of the termination section not breaker size. They will not size their conductors or transformer based on this but will require all conduits, pull boxes, transformer pads/vaults to be sized to handle the service size. They do this so when future loads are added they can easily upgrade conductors and transformer without any excavation/site work.
 
All the the 400 amp (class 320) residential services I have installed the past few years have taken close to 2 years from application date until energized.
 
Anyone know what tariffs usually say about this? I imagine POCO's are legally required to supply electricity with fixed and established connection costs - but probably with limits. I have delt with like extensions of course which have fixed and established costs, but never had a POCO say we can't supply that load. I imagine them being able to supply the load is on them, to some point anyway.
 
curt swartz said:
All the the 400 amp (class 320) residential services I have installed the past few years have taken close to 2 years from application date until energized.
Click to expand...
How does that go over with lending companies that typically want the construction loan closed out within about a year and permanent mortgage in effect by then?
 
electrofelon said:
Do you know why? What part of the process takes so long? Engineering? Line crew scheduling? Material procurement?
Click to expand...
Wasn't it hard to acquire 320 class meter sockets for a while there, maybe still is for some?

I know at one time even 200 amp meter sockets weren't readily available.
 
Up here in the PNW where power flows cheap a 600A service is not uncommon. Its just a 100kva pad mount 4" PVC lateral CT can and three pipes to three 200A panels.
I'd say 800A is less common, and above 800A is rare (but I have done one recently) for a SFD.
The delay is usually the CT metering gear.
 
electrofelon said:
Do you know why? What part of the process takes so long? Engineering? Line crew scheduling? Material procurement?
Click to expand...
Engineering can easily take a year. Once that in done the property owner can install the underground sub structures unless they contract with the utility to install. If any portion of the work is in public right away the utility will need to get public works permits with can take 1-2 months. After all underground work is 100% complete it has been taking 6 month to get wire pulled.
 
kwired said:
How does that go over with lending companies that typically want the construction loan closed out within about a year and permanent mortgage in effect by then?
Click to expand...
No idea but most of the custom homes I get involved with don't have construction loans. I'm in Silicone Valley = Cash $$$
 
curt swartz said:
Engineering can easily take a year. Once that in done the property owner can install the underground sub structures unless they contract with the utility to install. If any portion of the work is in public right away the utility will need to get public works permits with can take 1-2 months. After all underground work is 100% complete it has been taking 6 month to get wire pulled.
Click to expand...
That's ridiculous and with the new mandates one can imagine that it will only get worse.
 
curt swartz said:
No idea but most of the custom homes I get involved with don't have construction loans. I'm in Silicone Valley = Cash $$$
Click to expand...
And you would think those customers that they know have the $$$ would get at least some preferential treatment by the POCO's to be moved up higher on their construction lists. Here in NE with public power that won't really happen but where there is investor owned POCO's you would think it would. Of course larger industries with even higher energy use probably always remain at the top of such lists.
 
For new builds I dont remember gas line upgrades being any quicker. The worst is water and septic systems. Years ago there was an entire subdivision built and powered on, but whoops no water system.
I think when people buy vacant land for a 'steal' what they dont get is the cost of laying infrastructure.
 
tortuga said:
For new builds I dont remember gas line upgrades being any quicker. The worst is water and septic systems. Years ago there was an entire subdivision built and powered on, but whoops no water system.
I think when people buy vacant land for a 'steal' what they dont get is the cost of laying infrastructure.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be a steal if it had that infrastructure ;)

Like farm ground around here - if it has irrigation on it (and more recently rights to use the water has crept into the picture) it's worth more than same acres and similar soil conditions with no irrigation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top